Delta Counters Crash Pilot 'Disinformation'

News Discussion
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Delta Airlines has issued a statement countering what it says are "false and misleading assertions" about the experience and past performance of the pilots of the Endeavor Air CRJ 900 that crashed in Toronto on Feb. 17. Social media and YouTube has exploded with commentary and analysis, some of it centering on the fact that the pilot flying is a 26-year-old woman who graduated from the degree aviation program at the University of North Dakota two years ago. Some of the commentary has claimed that the pilot had only been flying for Endeavor for six weeks but she has been on the line since April of 2024 and "her flight experience exceeded the minimum" FAA requirements. Delta's full statement is copied below.

This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/delta-counters-crash-pilot-disinformation
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“her flight experience exceeded the minimum”

She slammed a perfectly good airplane into a runway.
Delta is saying that meeting the minimums is safe? I disagree.

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Kinda like being ‘right’ and being ‘dead right,’ eh, Art.

My original flight instructor of 54 years ago (a 30K Captain Airbus pilot / check airman) had lots to say about what it means to be a Captain. We’re opining about the FO’s failure to flare but the Captain is just as guilty for not recognizing that the weather conditions that day were not conducive to allowing a newly minted restricted ATP to do the landing OR to decide to either go around or go elsewhere. The only defense of the whole situation is that it all happened SO fast that there was no time to act. That no one perished is a true act of God.

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Congrats on finishing the investigation before the TSB, nice work!

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Well, I for one think that Dispatch (and the Captain) should have cancelled or re-routed the flight - regardless of the crew pairing.

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“The airline hasn’t named the pilots but they are being identified in some of the social media content”

Delta is the entity that is actively delaying flight crew information.
By holding back that information (on a non-fatality crash) that makes Delta the reason for all the online conjecture about the crew.

Delta is the cause of that conjecture, not a victim of it.

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Yeah, minimum standards… what everyone should strive for and be measured against. You can’t escape the results. It’s like sitting back and watching a slow motion explosion.

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What I think of you sir I will keep to my self, but publicly you are a pretty petty person. I read your comments and almost to a one they are negative, lacking in thought and understanding and this one is the same, but hits a new low for you.

First to all, if you are here on this site then you are or have been pilots. For one moment, put yourself back into a cockpit where maybe something went wrong but maybe that time you saved it, but if you had not…would you love having the world pick you apart before ever knowing what happened, what decisions you made up to that point? We are suppose to be a brotherhood, but what I read on this site most times are axes to grind, willingness to throw a pilot under the wheels without even knowing anything but gender or time in a seat. Maybe think one moment before saying stupid crap like Artie here just did.

Artie, She did not slam an airplane into a runway. You have no F’ing clue who was flying yet you go right to your misogynistic view thinking “well of course the female did it”. What a small world for you.

None of us here know, at all, what decisions where being made, who was flying, what they were experiencing. All we know is their experience and from that one fact, we have “they were qualified” and that should define every damn pilot that sits in a seat.

Who has not had nature throw a curve at the last moment on final. Until actual evidence is shown from the FDR we will not know if the plane was hit with a gust at the worst possible moment, but as to a go no go decision, we know other planes had landed, the overall conditions (cross wind component) were not being exceeded so a qualified pilot could make a decision to land and still have it get twisted. I’m thinking about TACA 110 and unknowing flying into enough rain to shut down two engines. Artrie, try reading Fate is the Hunter and learn something about dealing with the unknown.

Sailing in strong winds, I remember a number of times when the wind, without warning changed direction, in an instant causing the boat to crash gybe so I leave open the possibility that in that last moment, the most vulnerable time when kicking out a crab, having to drop that wing, plant that upwind gear that the plane got hit by weather.

I am thankful no one died. This was an accident, the investigation will reveal facts, not speculation. Also what I believe is that those two pilots are alive, and will one day, hopefully, return to their job and I believe it is sick to demean their character and their skills publicly, realizing how this will not just hurt the two pilots, but their family and friends.

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It’s good to see that after 30 years of mainstream internet, even the PR guys still haven’t learned:

  1. Get ahead of it and release the information before speculation takes over
  2. Don’t feed the trolls

That being said, all of the PR in the world can’t change the fact that the crew involved seems to have performed a carrier style landing with a normally operating regional jet, luckily resulting in no fatalities but still injuring innocent people.

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JHull, this is a serious business we are in.
Most of my comments are negative because most of these stories (like above) try to put a happy party hat on some very bad decision making. Having airlines and pilots say “well nobody died” makes aviation look bad.

Information about the flight crew does not throw them under a bus. The flying public deserves to know. Holding it back (as we see) only breeds suspicion and mistrust.

As far as “brotherhood”, that reminds me of police unions protecting bad cops. I always hope that aviation was better than that.

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I just don’t see why the name of anyone, unless the person is charged with a crime, is needed by any of us for any reason. Pilot, controller, car driver, what ever the event, just not needed by us or the press. What exactly does it accomplish, other than maybe reveling a female was involved…which we still don’t need to know. What Delta released, assuming it is honest info and I’ll assume it is until proven otherwise, is all our curiosity or the press needs.

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And, exactly what were the “bad decisions” here. There may later become some determined. But as of now who has issued that opinion. For now how about weather, mechanical, and many other possibilities.

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When a perfectly good aircraft is turned into an upside down heap, it’s on the PIC.
Support for that comes from simply looking at the multiple videos.

I did not see good judgement on that landing.
If anything it looked like a mis-judged flare, and still having a bit of right wingtip down (instead of using the rudder) to correct for a crosswind, and thus putting ALL the landing weight on the right main that promptly folded under the overload. So yea, a perfectly good plane was wrecked. It’s not the planes fault.

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It’s a regional jet. I would assume every jet in their fleet has had worse landings than that.

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The problem is that the majority of todays flight instructors don’t know how to teach and don’t know much about flying. An aviator who had survived a pretty ugly situation on a DC8 post maint test flight said regarding learning the basics without all the bells and whistles:
In that area the Piper J3 stands tall. I would take that a step further and say that those who soloed a glider at age 14 and then transitioned to the J3 are far better than those who skipped the basics.
I am a huge supporter of hiring based on knowledge and skills and physical strength and size. Not based on favoring DEI as Delta has stated in theri recent ads for pilots.
As far as the 99’s I sincerely believe that the WASP pilots were better than the women airline candidates of this era. There are exceptions to that and I have met quite a few of them and flown with some.

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I have watched several different source videos. It does not look to me to be a hard landing. It also does not look like the crosswind correction with the right wing low actually contacted the runway. Sure there was little flare but transport category planes are built to take a 3 degree glide path without a flare to landing. The fact that the “expert” news media has not reported any back injuries by passengers or crew on board makes me think more of a structural failure, not pilot error. We will just have to wait until the transportation board of Canada issues their findings.

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Regarding the crash the failure of the wing is indicative of forces far in excess of the design limits.
Flying the glide slope does not help if the speed is allowed to get too low. That was a combination of sink rate, low speed and dropping the nose in an extremely aggressive manner just before the mains touched down.

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Any landing that results in losing a wing and skidding to a halt upside down caught on video allowing for replay begs a boatload of questions. These would include captain and FO credentials and currency. These videos clearly shows … for whatever reasons…this airliner did not flare…resulting in stresses that exceeded the structural limits of this airplane. Audio reveals the voice of a male responding to ATC/Tower. The one handling the radio is normally the one not flying the airplane. Since there is a female and male in the cockpit, that audio, by the process of elimination, would identify the female is flying the airplane. Nothing sexist or irrational to come to this conclusion.

There are plenty of online videos showing normal airliner crosswind approaches crabbing into wind landing in a crab pirouetting on the downwind MLG at touchdown…because of engine or wing clearance issues common to virtually all airliners. Why did this approach mimic more a GA light plane crosswind approach with the upwind wing low and top rudder to maintain directional control? The rate of descent was high enough that it negated any ground effect cushion normally experienced in low wing airplanes as well. The result was the upwind wing hit the ground either first, at the same time the right main gear contacted terra firma, or a split second later. Video shows the downward bending of the right wing from the right MLG ground contact, further reducing remaining ground clearance.

FDR and CVR data will conclusively reveal who was flying. What I saw made me question … whoever was flying… which indicates by the audio it was the female FO… why he or she chose this type of crosswind approach and touchdown technique?

Once again, currency, time in type, ratings/qualification and CRM questions naturally arise. Delta seems to be slow in responding.

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To grasshopper. The mind doesn’t like loose ends, so folks tend to fill in the blanks when facts are missing. That’s human nature, but it can lead to jumping the gun in accident discussions. Right now, there’s more guessing than real analysis. Until the FDR and CVR tell the whole story, everything else is just noise. Best to wait for the facts.

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