Way to go, AJ Foyt. The first crash of highly advanced aircraft takes 292 people to their death, and you’re making some stupid ass childish joke about picking your seat on a future flight.
It’s classy. Really classy, and this isn’t the first time you said something like this.Have you ever felt shame over saying something offensive?
I think I can say definitely that the flaps were up on the takeoff roll. Just looked at the video of the take off run again. If things had gone so wrong, why wasn’t the gear raised? There was nowhere to land at that point. On the airbus demo, yes, it was a configuration issue that didn’t allow the fly by wire system to pick the nose up, also. Automation is not always perfect, however, I don’t know of a plane designed yet, that can’t be manually overrode to give you things like max power, and pitch change. The basics, power pitch and airspeed still apply. However, to do all this, you need to disengage the flight guidance systems. Once again though, my concern is that when taking off, there would have been many warnings in the cockpit, as soon as the power was increased. When we got our first new sophisticated aircraft, A 1988 GIV, I noticed a lot of things that made flying so much more easy in some cases, but distracted the pilots from the normal flying actions: for example, they were spending a lot of time on go arounds, looking at the FMS, rather than someone looking out the window. The autothrottles were not yet certified, and we were doing crew training just after the outfitting was complete. There was a lot of learning going on, for all of us.
The 787 has been around a long time now, and has been a good performer, despite the design issues that should never have happened. I just wonder what could have happened on this particular trip. It would have seemed so normal and routine. A no flap take off would not have been feasible with the fuel load and weights they would have had on this trip. I also don’t know if the 787 flight guidance system will allow a no flap takeoff on this plane.
He tries to be a race car driver - too fast off the mark gets one disqualified. :-o)
OMG … gear down, flaps maybe retracted instead AND an intersection takeoff !!
If I were a chief pilot of some organization, I’d write it into the ops manual … NO INTERSECTION TAKEOFFs.
Sad.
(Don’t need talking head politicians s like Secretary-General of the UN and POTUS Donald Trump. (Who should ensure funds and leadership for NTSB, which will assist India with investigation of this accident.)
Air India crash: One survivor reported; 241 killed | AP News
RIP. I’m glad that I’m not the only one who saw no flaps on the roll to the finish. The video on Twitter/X uploaded by Vikas Makwana is the clearest view of this. Though whether the aircraft w/242 on board along with fuel for a ~9 hr flight no flaps & gear down = crash, I couldn’t say.
I echo your sentiment Chuck Kubin.
Pilot’s Mayday said, “… losing power.”
MSN?
Voice recorder reportedly has Captain and First Officer saying “Mayday…no thrust…”
Computer or software? Yes, most likely I believe.
Right on! No flaps. Unless those pilots got their primary training in an airliner, where you can’t see the flaps, I think their first pre-takeoff checklist went something like, “extend flaps to full, visually check symmetry, retract flaps to T.O. position, visually check symmetry.” Taking supposition to the next level, I suspect sabotage, possibly hacking.
To those of you who here in the AvWeb comment section have been the most blatant of arm chair NTSB investigator wannabees, thank you for doing the rest of us the favor of distinguishing yourselves as being the true amateurs among us. You know who you are.
I assume you are talking about my posts: Sorry if I came across as that, even though I stated that I didn’t want to be an armchair quarterback. What I pointed out was that the flaps were stowed completely. Doesn’t take much of an expert to figure out that was a huge contributor. I did not try to make a supposition of what caused the accident. I merely pointed out my observations and the fact that an aircraft out of configuration would have had a host of messages/warnings prior to take off and when the throttles were pushed up for takeoff, or auto throttles engaged. I don’t know how the 787 autothrottles are set up. Most aircraft, won’t let you engage auto throttles until the power levers are pushed up to a certain position. This is to prevent thrust offset, but powering up one engine more than the other to turn onto the runway or go around a corner. If a plane won’t climb, you have to check power pitch and airspeed, which should have involved retracting the landing gear to reduce drag, and leveling the nose off to try and gain some airspeed. I wonder if they lost thrust, or if they simply didn’t have enough power to get out of the situation they were in, due to the flap setting and airspeed? Time will tell.
In a normal airliner takeoff the nose goes to about a 15° climb angle. This Air India never came close to that except possibly in the final few seconds before hitting the ground. It still got a half-way decent climb to about 600’ before leveling off and then gradually losing altitude; why the sudden level off regardless of flap position if it didn’t also lose power? Flap setting was not a factor in my opinion.
Worst are the pontificating former airline pilots blathering - one claimed if an engine failed the airplane would not take off.
Wrong, if past decision speed (‘V1’) procedure is to continue takeoff and climb out on one engine - which proper calculation of allowable weight facilitates. (Density altitude and runway length are primary factors, overspeed takeoff procedure often used for twins - trading runway used for climb performance.)
ATC recording or Cockpit Voice Recorder?
Most likely ATC.
Integration is essential.
Noting:
From video, the slats were clearly extended. On the 787 flaps 1 is an authorized takeoff configuration. At flaps one and five on the 787, there’s an appearance of no flap extension, but the slats will be clearly visible as was the case in this mishap.
It’s also a fairly common mistake during engine failure Sim training for the crew to forget to raise the landing gear, which was obvious visible in this situation.
There is no lower life form than people who go on social media for attention or compensation while speculating about accidents with little effort or information available to understand what happened.
Thanks.
In hot and high would probably use less flap deflection to get better climb performance over obstructions.
I read that FDR has been recovered.
Of course it takes time to carefully open it, inspect memory chips for condition, repair connections or transfer to a new board, …