Another issue that has yet to be reported on by those people that don’t own/operate a business is the insurance cost factor. Any uptick in claims or lawsuits will effect insurance rates for years to come. If a large percentage of employees at AirVenture and SNF became infected, just think of how the Workmans Comp rates would increase, even if no one died. Then there is the visiting public to think about. You know there will be some ambulance chasing lawyers who will sue for wrongful death or loss of income if a large group is infected. But if you cancel/postpone an event, these concerns are reduced or eliminated. Of course there would be an uptick in unemployment claims, but the rates are much less severe and are averaged over the entire industry and many years. Some paid time off can further reduce claims for unemployment compensation. My girlfriend has worked in the healthcare and insurance industry for many years and she can attest to this. I worked in the heavy construction business and can tell you that there were many times when an employee was injured and we kept him at work with reduced workload but full pay to avoid paying workmans’ comp. For example, if an employee twisted his ankle, we sent him to a private clinic and treated his injury and had him back at work the next day, but he was just answering the phone or cleaning the office for a few weeks. The medical bills were paid in full for the employee by the employer and full wages and benefits were paid. This was in contrast to getting paid the maximum WC benefits that were always less than regular wages. Of course this was voluntary for the employee, but most chose to avoid WC claims.
So, with that issue out there, I think that for many organizations, it is a financial decision to cancel events rather than a “we are concerned for the public and our fans”, issue. In the end, like any pandemic, the virus will take it’s course and spread to EVERYONE eventually no matter what precautions are taken, and then it will subside. Politicians are trying to get on record as trying to do everything they can to prevent the spread of this virus. In the end, they will have just postponed the inevitable.
Regarding “COVID 19 Batters Aviation: Overreaction?”
The most significant statement I read by the author was: " There’s simply no reliable data by which to make a risk assessment. "
There are many issues associated c this malaise and until data can be obtained via testing, many of those who don’t take this seriously may have second thoughts. The US has been lacking in consistent leadership; one that first reflected denial, and now decisions by committee that slow down an effective and efficient response.
Pilots training emphasizes situational awareness and risk assessment. I suggest we do just that.
Wow. I think the crew should have returned and handed the plane back to United saying, “we’ll be drinking the rest of the day”. 2.7 is a heavy pull in an airliner I would think.
“Wait… that wasn’t the autopilot button!”
I bet they were surprised when they descended out of that layer and saw ocean in front of them.
PF was heads-down maybe? Will be interesting to see what comes out of this, but I hope there’s an effort to maintain a just culture
I just fly small planes but 800 feet seems like not a margin at all for something that weighs 1MM pounds plus. Holy smokes
After they cleaned the brown marks from all the seats
Given the weather, perhaps a severe downdraft?
Sounds like they took off into a descending airmass that was descending faster than they could climb. Scary, but I think such a mass of air will flatten out and spread as it gets down near the surface, allowing you to fly out of it and climb. It might be an issue if there were obstructions in your path, but unlikely to push a plane into the ocean.
The media is portraying this as a “nose dive” which is annoying, since it definitely wasn’t that.
The maximum flight maneuvering load limits for a B777 is only 2.5 positive…. It seems to me that airplane should have undergone a detailed inspection prior to release for next flight.
This is almost identical to the Qatar Airways B787 incident departing Doha, Qatar earlier this month. In that case, it appears that spatial disorientation on the part of the Pilot Flying (PF) was the cause of a 3,000 fpm rate of descent to 800’ above the water.
Apparently I’m missing something in this and the AA runway incursion…when the crew or the aircraft malfunction to the point that it narrowly avoids a mishap, why does that seem like a good time to proceed as if nothing is wrong? Reminds me of the BA 747 that shutdown an engine on climbout from LAX to LHR.
This UA, the AA incursion and the FedEx/SW/ATC incident imply to me that we’re rapidly draining the community “luck” bucket with an unhealthy amount of complacency. Too bad the avoidance of “inconvenience” will not permit a system wide safety standdown, if this trajectory continues we’re about to permanently “inconvenience” at least a planeload.
This 777 UA incident incurred an 8600 fpm descent. Same day, same Wx system that affected the Hawaiian Airlines Flight from Phoenix to Honolulu which caused that flight to incur 25 injuries due to severe turbulence.
It would seem that Wx definitely played a roll in this UA 777’s takeoff and climb out.
Sounds like way too much conjecture here. Why not get all the facts before passing judgement. If weather was the cause, I completely understand why the crew would not go back. 2.7g was probably exciting but not an over ‘G’ if the flaps were up.
Stall recovery?
Another commenter on his YT page, who is a FO on a 777, said it is possible that the crew did not set up the autopilot correctly and put in “0” feet on the altitude selector. Thus, at 2200 feet, they switched on the AP and the aircraft did what it was told and tried to descend to ZERO feet. Ooops…
I thought commercial pilots were to report such “down drafts” or “micro bursts” for the safety of other planes… maybe too shook up to think clearly. NTSB will get all the answers!
Did you hear this as well: CNN reported that a passenger on the flight stated that before the descent, “…the plane climbed at “a concerning rate” for a few seconds. It felt like you were climbing to the top of a roller coaster.” No mention of deck angle in the climb, though.
Weird air out there…, once I was body surfing on a black sand beach on the big island, at dawn, and with zero wind at the shore I saw TWO waterspouts form about 1/4 to 1/2 mile away. That still freaks me out years later. Between seeing that and the severe undertow at the site, I got out of there ASAP? Can you imagine the remainder of that flight, the mood of the passengers on board? Had to be surreal.
Haleakala tops 10,000 feet only ~15 miles away and generates great sailplane conditions. Would make sense you sometimes will be encountering some mongo rotor activity. I’m sure we’ll get details eventually, maybe they mishandled it in some way but for now it’s pure speculation.