Reports are coming in about a serious incident, possibly a midair collision between a helicopter and a CRJ 700 (American Airlines?) at Washington Reagan Airport. Information is sketchy but the RJ is reportedly in the Potomac. No official word on casualties yet.
This was a 1000% preventable collision. More tomorrow. Does anyone recall the incident at DCA last year where ATC cleared an AAL plane for takeoff on 36 with a Kingair short final to 33? Definitely something is rotten in Denmark at DCA.
That may be a little hyperbolic, Dan. It was dark, with a lot of ground lights, and the NG chopper could easily have lost sight of the CRJ at the worst time. ATC was probably worried about it, or they wouldn’t have issued the “in sight” question. I’m afraid that after a mid-air that results in both aircraft in the water at night, there will be a lot of casualties.
Tragic.
" See and avoid "
RIP
Condolences to the families and friends of those affected.RIP
Few pilots, relative to the total population of pilots, will ever be where that Black Hawk and CRJ where. On a few occasions I have been there both unadded and added with NVGs. It is a terribly tight and unforgiving place with lots of lights and ground objects to distract attention of the heli pilots. The fact there was two DC Guard pilots and a third crew member, most likely all three using NVGs and very familiar with the area and they ran into a CRJ tells me maybe the CRJ hit them from the rear. The CRJ pilots never really having much of a chance to see the Hawk in all the ground lights. Condolences to all. Terrible accident.
I am an instructor, and retired ATCS. I am also a pilot, so I am aware of the nighttime factors that will have contributed to this incident. I teach ways to prevent this from happening. I don’t deal in hyperbole. There are many things that went wrong in this scenario, and they will be discussed over the next several hours. What is your experience???
In that airspace, at night at around 200-300 feet? Not as easy as you beleive.
Just as difficult is understanding a word that controller was saying. Compared to the pilots, the controller was going so fast I could barely understand a single thing he said. No wonder people run into each other.
That is all “positive control airspace”. So what controller was checking their “texts” or doing a cool “snapchat”. Maybe trying to get one last “tik toc” in. With all the screens we look at constantly, there is one big screen every controller should watch, and closely lives are on the line.
I am an instructor, and retired ATCS. I am also a pilot, so I am aware of the nighttime factors that will have contributed to this incident. I teach procedures and other ways to prevent this from happening. I definitely don’t deal in hyperbole. There are many things that went wrong in this scenario, and I am sure they will be discussed over the next several hours.
We are all speculating here, so there’s that. However, from the audio it appears the controller asked PAT 25 if they had the CRJ in sight. We can’t hear the response from PAT 25, but the controller’s next transmission directed PAT 25 to pass behind the CRJ. Based on that, it sounds to me like PAT 25 told the controller they had a visual on the CRJ.
Remember that LiveATC isn’t an official audio feed, and there are sometimes differences between what is recorded there and what was actually heard on the frequency. It seemed like some points of the LiveATC audio was running at more than 1x, because I have experience working with those controllers and they aren’t usually speedtalkers. The audio quality also seemed lower than would actually be heard on frequency.
“1000% preventable” is hyperbole.
But regarding “many things that went wrong”, I’m sure one of the biggest is the nationwide controller staffing shortage. Until that is resolved, there will be more accidents/incidents and near-accidents/incidents all around the nation. I’ve seen the controller shortage effects even at my own local Class-D airport, and it’s not good having overworked controllers.
I am an instructor and a semi - retired carpenter. I am also a pilot, so I am aware of the night time factors that will have contributed to this accident. I teach ways to prevent this from happening like, don’t fly at night unless you have to and you’re on an IFR flight plan in congested areas. It’s just not worth the risk. Oh, by the way, why don’t we add a few thousand, or, tens of thousands of drones to this mix. That might make things safer, right? We still have a hard time separating full size aircraft. Is there something wrong with this picture?
Certainly night flying presents new challenges that aren’t present during the day, but I generally try to avoid using the phrase “it’s not worth the risk” when there are multiple variables involved. For instance, is it night in a piston helicopter or a turbojet airplane, is it a moonless night or a full moon, is it in a populated or unpopulated area, etc. And I have found in many cases, it’s actually easier to spot other aircraft at night than during the day since their lighting is more noticeable. Of course, possible NVG use in a congested area changes that equation (which again goes back to the age old “it depends” mantra).
I completely agree on your point about drones, though.
That is some of the most heavily controlled airspace on planet earth.
I still cannot believe this could happen there.
I am not a helicopter pilot nor am I an airline pilot. And while the non-pilots all debate their newly-discover right of way rules for landing traffic I have to think that no matter who’s fault it really is (and I don’t think it’s any one particular person’s fault) but I think they will hang this on the helo crew.
I have been told by a tower to make a left climbing 360 turn NOW. I did it right NOW without asking why. It took much less than the time I saw that CA flashing on the ATC display from last night. Seems like it was preventable but I won’t go with 100%. Nothing is 100%.
ATC is a radio mumbler! And a speed talker. The Live ATC is real time, not sped up, because you can see the seconds tick off in real time. I’ve been told to fly a 360 to maintain separation and I believe it’s going to come down to the controller giving incorrect instructions based on the assumption the heli had the CRJ in sight. I’m surprised with all the experts being interviewed on TV that no one has said this.