Toyota Pledges $500MM Investment In Joby Aviation

Toyota announced today it was investing a half billion dollars more in Joby Aviation. Since 2019, the carmaker has already invested some $394 million in the electric air-taxi developer. Toyota said the added investment is “to support the certification and commercial production of Joby’s electric air taxi, with the aim of realizing the two companies’ shared vision of air mobility.”


This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/toyotas-support-includes-engineering-input-on-manufacturing-processes

And yet they ignore current, safe, mature VTOL solutions?
Seems that they are a solution that’s really late to the game.

They look like a “mutant” MD-500 with a 40 minute range and 5 hour charge time. Probably the cost per flight hour of the 500. Hope it works for someone.

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Question: Is Toyota a credible investor?

Answer: Yes. Toyota, a global leader in innovation and sustainability, brings extensive experience in production efficiency and strategic investments, making them a credible and influential player in the air taxi market. However, realistically, the long-term success of air taxis is, IMO, uncertain, especially in the California market where environmental concerns are high and regulatory and infrastructure challenges are significant.

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It is good to see what EVTOL engineering with nearly unlimited budget can produce. Revenue wise - not holding my breath. I bet the big players are rather interested in technology and image benefits.

Nothing new under the sun. Big companies throw money into many such worthless programs, in this case probably in their effort to appear “green” in the land of greenies. See for instance the Toyota TAA-1 aircraft built with help from Scaled Composites. Flop. Or Mitubishi’s two failed attempts to enter the GA market with the MU-2 and what later became the Beechjet. This battery flivver too will fail once the government and duped investor money dries up.

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The real aircraft are parked on the ground. The only one that’s flying is a computer generated image. Telling.

Nothing new about the negative comments either. Good thing the Wright Brothers did not have to put up with negative internet commentators.

Good thing WB idea was actually good, therefore could demonstrate it works at their expense.

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The Joby S4 is fast, efficient, quiet, and green when compared to traditional rotary aircraft. The range performance demonstrated by the H2 experimental hydrogen fuel cell version of the Joby exceeded that off the Bell 206B by more than 40% on its first try. The technology that Joby is bringing to aviation rivals that of the technology that Tesla brought to the automotive world. Thank goodness for the fact that vision, innovation, and outstanding engineering capabilities still reside in America today.

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Hydrogen is not only a poor fuel energy wise, but it also self-depletes when stationary (due to venting or simply leaking out past a fitting). That, and I would not call it “green” since 95% of the hydrogen is made from natural gas.

As far as “innovation”, all of this has been tried many times before. I lived through the 70’s so-called energy crisis so thinking that smart people have not tried H2 or electric propulsion before is laughable.

turn the Joby eVTOL into a combat machine:

1.	Armor Up: Slap on some lightweight armor—because no one likes a battle with holes in their rotors.
2.	Weapons: Add some missiles, rockets, or machine guns. You know, the standard “don’t mess with me” package.
3.	Sensors: Install high-tech eyes, so it can spot trouble before trouble spots it. Maybe even some heat vision—Terminator style.
4.	Mission Flex: Need to drop off troops or pick up someone wounded? No problem—just make sure no one spills coffee on the medevac gear.
5.	Stealth Mode: It’s already quiet, but make it quieter. Sneaky missions are better when the enemy doesn’t hear you coming!
6.	Extra Juice: More range, so it doesn’t run out of battery mid-battle. Because that’s embarrassing.

Boom! The Joby is now ready for combat—silent but deadly, like a ninja on wings.emphasized text**emphasized text

But with zero autorotation capability, a loss of a single vertical-lift motor would be a significant control challenge, especially if in forward flight mode. Apparently there is no provision for even a ballistic parachute. I’d sooner take a cab in Bangkok.

Does the target market even exist? Well, yes, I suppose so. But add “at the price needed to profitably service it” and I’m still on the “No” side, sorry.

Their first full scale, pre-production prototype took wing in '19, had flown over 5,000 miles by '21 (including one flight of over 150 miles), and Joby delivered the first production model to the USAF in '23, for use at Edwards AFB.

Damn, just where have you been?

Three things to keep in mind about Toyota. First, they aren’t stupid. They have some of the best engineers in the automotive world, so if they see potential in Joby’s design concept, I’m pretty sure there is something worthwhile there. Second, they, like most Japanese companies, are in it for the long term. If it takes ten or more years for the e-VTOL market to catch on, they are willing to wait and refine the ideas. I have worked with a number of Japanese companies and to them, a short-term goal is five years out. Medium is 10 and a long-term goal may be out 20 years. Third, what Toyota brings to the partnership is an intimate knowledge of mass production of critical components and a culture of quality and continuous improvement. People thought they were crazy when the introduced the Prius hybrid, but it has always been a reliable and well-built vehicle that continuously evolves. Finally, I think many of you are making the assumption that e-VTOLs will never work in LA or New York. I’m willing to bet that Toyota’s primary markets will be overseas in crowded third world countries or places like Tokio or Singapore where regulations are less punitive and there is a good supply of wealthy individuals that are willing to pay the higher price to soar above the masses in safety and comfort.

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Joby has an interesting aircraft. However, their “Uber of the air” thing will not work for a very long time. The regulatory issues will make operating this type of aircraft too expensive and too restrictive for just anyone to call one up for a pickup from your house for a ride some place. For instance, (as it stands now) you’ll need a commercial pilot with a powered-lift rating onboard even though his only job may be to press the takeoff now button. Not only does this take up a revenue seat, the hourly rate for such a person is way more than the housewife who drives an Uber while the kids are in school. They will be marginally less expensive than private and charter helicopters and will be used by people who can afford such things.

Joby has 6 motors/rotors plus a wing. It can land in a conventional fashion. A motor or prop failure will result in a control law change and will be dealt with automatically. For instance, a failure of one outboard motor/prop may be dealt with by simply shutting down the other outboard motor and increasing thrust on the remaining 4. Joby and similar vehicles are likely to be certified to operate in conventional mode by the regulators before getting certification in VTOL operations. There are other vehicles that have as many as 30 motors. A motor failure on one of those will be a non event.

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Here’s a summary of the key points from the comments:

  1. Late to the party: Some people think Joby is trying to bring in a flying taxi solution that’s already been solved by other companies with proven technology.
  2. Poor performance: There are concerns that Joby’s aircraft doesn’t have enough range and takes too long to charge, making it not very practical compared to regular helicopters.
  3. Toyota is a good backer: Many agree that Toyota is a smart and credible company to invest in Joby, thanks to its experience in innovation and production.
  4. Uncertain future for flying taxis: Even though Toyota’s support is seen as a plus, people are unsure if flying taxis will succeed because of strict rules, environmental concerns, and high costs, especially in places like California.
  5. Cool technology, but will it make money?: While Joby’s engineering is impressive, some doubt whether it will be able to make enough money to be a success.
  6. Companies might just want to look “green”: Some believe big companies invest in projects like this just to appear eco-friendly, rather than because they believe in the technology’s potential.
  7. Safety worries: There are concerns about safety, especially the lack of a backup plan if the motors fail or other safety features like a parachute for emergencies.
  8. Who will pay for this?: There’s skepticism about whether enough people would actually use flying taxis at the price it would cost to run them.
  9. Positive comparisons to Tesla: A few people think Joby could be as big a game-changer in flying taxis as Tesla was for electric cars.
  10. Humor about turning it into a combat machine: Someone made a fun comment about how Joby’s aircraft could be turned into a military vehicle, which added a bit of humor to the conversation.
  11. Lots of red tape: Some believe it will be a long time before flying taxis are a reality because of the many legal and operational hurdles to overcome.
  12. Joby’s progress so far: Joby has already made some real progress, like delivering a model to the U.S. Air Force, but there’s still skepticism about how soon it will be ready for the public.

Note: All of the above was influenced by ChatGPT 4o.