A group of Florida pilots has organized a petition campaign to have the FAA stop ADS-B data from being used to bill pilots for landing fees. It's the latest wrinkle in a growing movement to stop the controversial practice. The pilots took action after the airport authority at Kissimmee, Florida signed a deal with Vector Airport Systems to have it send bills to the registered owners of aircraft landing at the field. One of the organizers of the petition, Don Frano, said the third-party billing is foremost a safety issue. "After spending seven days at Sun N Fun campaigning for awareness and support on the petition I was surprised how many pilots were not aware of this growing trend and more shockingly how many's knee jerk response has been to turn off their ADS-B out," Frano told AVweb. "If we see follow through on that the skies will be less safe for all of us."
Although not an active pilot, were I, I would absolutely sign this petition. When I flew I was a VFR, low time pilot that enjoyed doing short cross country trips landing at a couple of airports along the way, for practice and fun. There were also the occasional trips to specific places, but unless it was specifically stated, there was no landing fee and if it was, I factored it into my budget.
Now, it would seem that that same type of day could rack up fees I don’t even know are coming and on top of the safety aspect mentioned, it could start to curtail the fun part of flying to other/new places as now the “game” may be, who may charge me and for how much. I am less concerned about the privacy aspects because as a society, we gave that up years ago allowing google and social media sites to track us whether we know it or not. ADS-B is a valuable safety tool that should not be abused for greed.
I’m no fan of surprises and getting a bill with a charge I am not aware of up front is not a fun surprise.
Let me ask a sensitive question… Are the airports using ADS-B data to collect a fee that we owe for using their airport (i.e. as an effort to enforce payment owed to them?) Are those who oppose the use of ADS-B to collect the fee trying to skip out on paying a fee that they might owe?
Ah, but the FAA isn’t using it for billing. <wink,wink,nudge,nudge>
They just neglected to establish that no one could legally use the raw data for billing, surveillance, advertising, or any purpose other than ATC separation and collision avoidance, without a properly issued warrant. Anonymized data could be useful for all sorts of traffic load, future planning, airspace safety, and other purposes, of course.
Traditionally, this was done by having a “ramp fee”, “tie-down fee”, “restroom fee”, “internet access fee”, ad nauseam, for everything other than what was owned/managed by the FAA. If the runway was built with federal dollars for the benefit of its citizens, the FBO has no damn business charging a fee for the use of it.
'Are those who oppose the use of ADS-B to collect the fee trying to skip out on paying a fee that they might owe?
And if some are?
Nothing ever new under the sun regarding human behavior.
Maybe think a bit more on the implications of your query regarding freedom and responsibility for all pilots and aviation regarding the promised and proper use of ADS-B.
Airports/FBOs were already tracking down tail numbers of aircraft landing at airports before ADS-B, so it was already possible to bill back those aircraft. The difference with ADS-B, though, is that now those airports/FBOs don’t have to do any of the legwork themselves to bill the pilot of an aircraft doing a single touch-and-go or even low-approach. Operations which arguably cost the airport nothing and so the pilot should not have to pay anything for those.
It’s one thing to be billed for something that you’re actually using, but being automatically billed just for being in the “wrong place” is ethically wrong. And that, I believe, is what this is really about.
Bingo … ADS-B, camera, pencil and paper, spy satellites, people hiding in the shrubbery, eyeballs aside … no one likes suprises that cost them or hurt them. I hope these conversations lead to a way for pilots to “know” up front. Then we can each make decisions as we choose.
Great question. Aside from some potentially evil actors trying to get rich off of landing fees, its my understanding that airports establish fees to bridge a gap between their costs and their income. Assuming they do this based on a operations estimate and division, those that govern airports come up with a “number” and policy. If half the people “skip out” on paying the fee (make ADS-B “illegal” for this purpose, not “signing in” at the FBO, or jumping over a fence to avoid the terminal) it seems to me a logical next step may be to accomodate for this and double the fee that our fellow pilots that don’t skip out, pay.
One thing it seems we can do as pilots that could be hlepful to the situation is to help communicate the value of GA airports to the community. How does the airport bring money into the community directly and indirectly? We all should know. As a pilot of more than 40 years using airports, I was clueless about how airports work and operate behind the scenes. It’s an incredible labor of passion in most places. My perception of a well run airport was no loose stones to nick my prop or my paint job, having a clean bathroom (for my wife), and a reasonably close place to get lousy food. If us pilots could be better ambassadors for the airports, perhaps the community would be more open to investing into the community asset and the need for fees would go away or diminish. I don’t like spending $1 on something I see no value in, but would happily spend $20 on something I do.
At the end of the day, we all need each other … pilots, airports, and communities … I hope we can address these challenges through open, difficult, and respectful conversations, transparent data sharing, and proactively disseminating information to avoid suprises.
If FAA is going to allow this data sharing activity, which obviously does not improve safety, and could harm it, then the FAA could require activities involving AIP or other federal money to share much more transparently any information about fees. I have spent hours at a time trying to sort out all the fees associated with a given trip plan because the system lacks any centralized clearinghouse for airport/FBO/ramp/security fees. I’m not against the idea of fees. Some airports and FBOs can’t exist without them. But greater transparency is needed.
If they can’t help us out with that, then maybe they can stop sharing so irresponsibly. Maybe we need to help them grapple with the choice.
It’s maddening how FBOs and airports are piling onto the fees bandwagon. I purposely plan to avoid airports that charge fees. The effect is to exclude light GA from public airports that are supported by taxpayer dollars and fuel taxes. It’s just salt in the wound that we had to pay to install ADS-B equipment and then have it used against us to bill us for using public facilities.
I am the volunteer manager of a regional airport in the Northeast. Our only sources of operational revenue are fuel sales (for which we have to remain competitive), landing fees for the few commercial aircraft that come in, overnight fees, and taxing our local citizens to close the gaps. The FAA does not contribute anything to operations including repairs and maintenance. That’s a huge gap we have to make up locally.
Obviously, the airport isn’t staffed, so fee payment is honor system. Let me tell you… There isn’t a lot of honor in the pilot community these days. We use ADS-B to issue bills to the 65% that don’t bother to pay. Of the ones we bill, about 50% pay. If this airport has to close it will be lost forever and now you know why.
If you are against using ADS-B data for billing legitimate airport fees, I hope you are doing your part to fund every airport you use.
How is the payment collected, and what method is employed to ensure people can’t steal from the payments other pilots have left? I have been to similar airports and at times have tried to pay only to find the FBO closed with no way for me to leave payment.
The other question is, how do pilots know there even is a fee? That is a real issue in that pilots often can’t figure out all of the fees that apply to them at a given airport ahead of time. If they only find out after the fact, it’s not surprising that they will resist paying.
There almost certainly are pilots who try to skip out on paying airport fees just because they can, but I’m also certain there are many pilots who unintentionally don’t pay for a variety of reasons. And being taxed by an automated system using the data from a system whose purpose was sold purely on its safety benefits will certainly make many pilots balk at them.
The scammer charging this fee is Pete Coleton and his company is vector. He’s using your adsb to send you a bill for nothing in return. He’s not providing a service or a product to you (like an FBO would), he’s just sending you a bill even if you do a low approach or missed approach. He’s using your publicity funded airports and your use of your adsb to line his pocket. Do not pay him anything.
From the EU, we don’t see the problem. We are used paying for landings, even smaller grass fields. But we don’t have unmanned fields.
Rates depend on if you come from another field, or you made a local training flight. Weight can be an factor, as (like in Germany) is the “noise category” yr plane is in.
Arriving form another apt may cost anything btn 10 and 30 USD. Touch and goes (at my home base) will be upwards of 10 euros. Large fields with airline activities can START at 100 USD with extra’s for how many parked hours, an overnight stop can easy double the fee. So most pilots avoid those fields. Landing fees are really a considerable financial factor like during the training part of Yr flying.
Many, if not most, GA fields are financially self supporting.
Well, vive la difference, as they say. Yes, the US and Canada (together but independent of one another!) are very different from Europe. The US alone has over 20,000 airports and over 3000 public-use with lights and published instrument approaches. Alaska has one airport with 500 seaplanes and there is a waiting list for slips. Public-use airports with NO FEES at all are not unusual here. Yes, the US IS special, in some ways, and this is one!
Check your numbers in your neighborhood of Europe and you will see that there simply is no comparison to be made with the US and Canada.