Is It Electric Aviation's Time?

There are lots of reasons to naysay the switch away from fossil fueled energy but many more and better reasons to be positive about it. In the meantime while the smoke clears there will be teething issues…

ROFL
It’ll be another dotcom bust, over built with naiive and/or shady financials.

Plus the collapse of climate catastrophism, as voters realize the impact on their lives of carbon taxes, subsidies out of their taxpayer pockets, and falseness of doomsday claims.

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Accurate temperature sensors like weather balloons, satellite sensors, and tide gauges show only a continuation of the slow rate of rise since the end of a cool era circa 1750AD.

(That cool era followed the Medieval Warm Period when Vikings farmed southwest Greenland. Warmer than today yet climate was stable.)

The basic physics of greenhouse gases means the effect of CO2 is small, most of that has already been realized. The ‘saturation’ effect from overlap of spectra of carbon dioxide and dihydrogen monoxide vapour limits temperature rise - it’s an asymptotic rise to a limit.

Yes, some catastrophists claim there is a positive feedback loop. Yet water vapour is decreasing and climate was stable in the warmer MWP.

(Volocopter Enters Insolvency - AVweb)

As much as people may be hyping electric vehicles, it doesn’t take much sense to realize that we’re a long way from them replacing ICE. Take farm tractors for example. The tractor that can pull a 14 row planter for 12 hours is not even in the conceptual state, let alone reality. Same with trucks. Sure, maybe Tesla has one that can haul a light load a hundred miles, but going across the country pulling 40000 pounds? No way. Airliners staying in the air for 18 hours on battery? Get real. There’s a big gap between a 2 seat trainer that will stay in the air for an hour and a practical electric airplane that can be used for serious transportation.

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Battery weight is good for a tractor, aids traction. :-o)

Not for an aircraft.

A key question is progress made.

Boom Supersonic just received another $200 million, after getting its supersonic demonstrator into lower transonic range (0.95M). Won’t get supersonic this year.
Still a road ahead but they actually built an airplane and flew it.

We need more fossil fuels, not less. There is a very clear and direct correlation in the dramatic rise in human flourishing with the development of coal, oil and gas resources. See Alex Epstein’s best-seller, “Fossil Future”. Thanks to American engineering, directional drilling and fracking are dramatically expanding our known reserves, which is terrific news for aviation.

I’d like a powerplant, tomorrow, not 20 years from now, similar to my '21 RAV4 plug in hybrid car I drive, and love. Use both the gas engine and the battery for takeoff, once in cruise a downsized ICE would do the job, regen a bit on the descent, it’s RELATIVELY feasible today, but it’d no doubt be heavy. I’m not holding my breath for a pure EV plane, best I could do would be a E powered light sailplane (they exist) of foot launched paraglider, to get me up to the soaring ridge behind my house.

I’m waiting for your response to what I wrote.

Battery powered hand tools have come a long way in the last 10 years. I recently used the neighbor’s battery powered chain saw and was amazed at how well it worked, how quiet it was and how long the battery lasted. Can’t say the same for electric cars though. About a year ago one of my wife’s friends drove her Tesla model Y to spend the night with us. One of her tires picked up a nail on the road and was flat in the morning. That’s when her husband called and said that he was getting continuous text messages from the Tesla about the low tire pressure. He found out that there is no spare tire or jack provided with the Tesla because it cannot be jacked at a single point due to the weight of the batteries and the stress on the frame. The tires are special heavy duty tires that are wider than standard and pressurized at 42 psi, which my portable inflator couldn’t reach. Anyway, they eventually found a service station about 12 miles away that had a lift compatible with the Tesla to repair the tire. The leak was slow enough that they made it there driving the car before the tire went flat. Battery technology just isn’t there yet to replace internal combustion engines and there are lots of related issues like the tires, location of operational charging stations, charge times and range that limit EV usefulness. There’s no question that electric motors are lighter, simpler and more efficient converting power to mechanical movement than internal combustion engines. If we can ever overcome the issues surrounding the generation and distribution of green hydrogen, then we might see hydrogen fuel cell batteries that overcome the weight, energy density, charge time and range problems with lithium ion batteries. Right now hybrid electric power seems to be the best solution for ground and air vehicles.

When an electric powered Vans RV-9A can get me from SC to MI in 4 hours with a fuel stop, I’ll be convinced. Battery technology is getting better but with the current technology there is no math to get there.

Dang - sounds like you need a new inflator.

[Unless it was meant for an air mattress?]

Indeed. Trends in electric cars – Global EV Outlook 2024 – Analysis - IEA

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It’s New Year’s Day–and I’m at my office at the FBO–it’s cold outside here in Minnesota (will get below zero tonight) and it’s snowing. HARDLY the weather where I’d want to be driving an electric car–let alone an airplane!

Electric vehicles may be OK for urbanites that live in warm climates–but for those of us that live in the northern half of the country–with cold temperatures and snow–and few places to plug in the short-ranged electric vehicles–I’ll stick with vehicles fueled by dead dinosaurs! :grin:

Electric vehicles have their place–(GOLF COURSES are perfect for them–they don’t need range or endurance over an hour or so)–but for those of us who are not “dazzling urbanites” where you are never far from a plug-in–and have to live with the realities off cold temperatures, poor weather, and the need for longer range–they are not a reasonable alternative when lives depend on them. A hybrid might address these problems–but then you have to ask “WHY DEAL WITH THE SHORTCOMINGS OF ELECTRIC VEHICLES?” :thinking:

The auto industry is in a tug-of-war between electric vehicles (EVs) and internal combustion engine vehicles (ICEs). EVs are pulling ahead thanks to big investments, government support, and growing demand, but ICEs aren’t letting go just yet. They’ll stick around for things like heavy-duty trucks, rural driving, and areas where EVs don’t work as well. Over the next 30 years, according to many reputable sources, EVs are expected to take over most of the market. With cleaner energy and better tech on their side, it’s hard to see them losing this tug-of-war. EVs have legs, but electric aircraft? The jury’s still out.

Ships are diesel electric, trains are diesel electric but they don’t run on batteries. Gas electric works for cars. The new generation of electric bicycles are just wonderful until you realize that pedalling a 70 pound bike up a modest hill is a non starter when the battery reaches half charge. Ships and trains can carry tons of batteries with low rolling resistance or water resistance, where are they? If you get your go juice from overhead trolley wires then that works just fine. If you’re delivering a mixed cargo around a city then a diesel truck is the only answer. A battery powered flying pig will not enthuse the aviation community. Lots of snake oil, not much practical application.

Yes, the inability of my Schumacher battery jump pack’s inflator to get above 35 psi surprised me too. So I got a Milwaukee M18 inflator, which is way better. My friend with the Tesla bought one too. He also bought a full size spare tire and jack for the Tesla even though they say you need to put the car on a special lift with disc adapters at the four corners of the frame to change the tire.

The range provided by EVs that are available now is more than adequate for the people who own them. Full recharge of our Hyundai Ioniq 6 gets us about 320 miles. This is plenty for daily use and we recharge overnight with our home-installed level 2 charger. If we should want to drive longer distances, there are charging stations available on major routes which will get us to an 80% charge in about 20 minutes. We have no desire to drive mover 300 miles without stopping. The EVs are so much better in every way than gas-engine cars that I have a hard time explaining it to people who have never owned one. Much more efficient batteries are coming quite soon and will be needed for longer flights by electric-powered aircraft and vehicles which pull heavy loads. I understand the love that many people have for gas-powered cars, but, technology rolls on!

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Dear Russ,

What is not so evident here is an understanding of our ability to store electrical energy in a weight efficient manner. The commonplace assumption in our technologically optimistic society is that the battery will obviously mature, and that when it does, it will replace the current energy storage system (fuel tank) in our wings. Also we experience “models” of electric flight through the excellent usage in RC aviation, and “want to believe” that the same advantages will scale up to give similar service. I will refer to these wishes as “Hopium”, and they have zero place in a world were Physics and Engineering have a say.
I need to be up front, and tell you that I am an engine designer, and have worked on all types of engines ranging from 4-stroke chain saws, to aero diesels, 2-stroke, 4-stroke, Wankel, Diesel etc. I have accumulated 35 years experience, and witnessed some of the most difficult projects including the Bugatti Veyron, Formula 1 and even notable (infamous?) aero diesel programs that failed due to foreign collusion.
I recently had a discussion with a notable aircraft engineer (retired) from a significant GA company. I asked him why his company was not jumping on the gravy train, and pursuing electric flight. He said he was asked to do so by management, but countered that the battery energy density technology had failed to improve over a 15year period. In fact, it had barely matured enough to make a reasonable flight. I consider a reasonable flight in my Cessna 182, as being able to carry our passengers and baggage for 3 hours.

Here’s a nice source, and its for 100LL, not diesel, which stores roughly 15% more energy than gasoline.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskPhysics/comments/xn25ar/converting_a_tesla_4680_battery_density_in_wh_to/?rdt=57358

There’s another source that is telling about why the energy density of a fixed composition battery is so far off. Here’s that one:

https://medium.com/the-unfortunate-tetrahedron/the-unfortunate-tetrahedron-ce1e44d0b961

Simply stated the energy density must be drastically improved to be viable for electric and/or hybrid flight. My conclusion is that its much more feasible to design a light-weight, reliable Diesel, than to place your bets on “hopium”. It can be done, and the engine thermal efficiency will be better than 45%.