Originally published at: Bomber Toll Uncertain In Ukraine Raids - AVweb
Only 13 planes have been confirmed as destroyed.
I Guess Ukraine doesn’t need any outside help in its war with Russia as they have claimed for years, begging the U.S. and others for funding. Zelinsky is one hell of a con man and a whole bunch of countries, mostly the U.S. drank the kool aid. Given the latest events and claims, Ukraine doesn’t need anyone. They are more than capable of handling Putin themselves. How do we know? They said so.
Good piece. TWZ usually gets it right, but this story’s still unfolding. Ukraine’s claim of 41 bombers hit was bold, but even they’ve backed off that number. Russia’s likely already clearing wreckage and fixing what it can. They’ve done it before.
Even if the count’s lower, Ukraine proved it can hit deep. That alone matters.
Slava Ukraini.
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Truth is the first casualty in a conflict. Repeat the lies until the they become accepted. What happened here you can see for yourself. The Russian propaganda machine will predictably minimize this as a “western propaganda smear” and hide the truth from the decent people in a police state who want nothing to do with this “police action”. Ask the folks in Europe and especially in the Baltic states what they believe. We live in a relatively safe (until now) fortress North America but that can soon change with political and economic interests making inroads on our Arctic shores. The only “con man” here is Putin. That’s something you can take to the bank.
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“ Truth is the first casualty in a conflict.” Yep… tell a lie long enough and loud enough, it will eventually perceived as truth. Several US friends just returned from Russia. Great news! It’s not a police state. Beautiful clean cities, well stocked shopping centers, outstanding public transportation, everyone speaks freely, mostly Christian country. The Russian citizens are baffled by this US led hatred of Russia. The Cold War ended in 1991. No more Soviet Union! Russia is not the Soviet Union. Russians understand that but can’t figure out why the US doesn’t know about world history in the last 35 or so years. Oh yeah… looks like the nuclear capable aircraft damage estimate will be “revised” into something more “truthful “. I wonder if we forgot about SALT and START treaties we negotiated in those “lost” recent decades, too?
“Even if the count’s lower, Ukraine proved it can hit deep. That alone matters.”
Ukraine proved it can hit deep… with US money, intelligence, targeting info, military hardware supplied to a dictator who has made one poor decision after another. That alone matters? 25 million Ukrainian refugees and 1.5 million Ukrainian families who buried 1.5 million soldiers probably will disagree with you. I am sure the Russian leadership, Russian citizens, and 100,000 Russian families who buried 100,000 Russian soldiers will disagree. I am sure the citizens of all the NATO allies especially Germany would disagree, too. Ask them how fuel costs have destroyed their economy. And I disagree with “ that alone matters”.
My loyalty is to my country. My loyalty to my government is only when they deserve it. They do not deserve it.
I have been in combat. Sixty years ago. Lost many good friends. I have seen what war does to people, to families, to entire countries. There is no glory in it. The loss stays with you. It never really leaves.
But Ukraine did not start this war. Russia invaded. Everything that has happened since, the drone strikes, the refugees, the destruction. it all began with Putin’s decision to cross that border. Yes, Ukraine gets help from the West, but they are the ones doing the fighting and burying their dead. When they strike back, it is not for show. It is about survival. It is about making sure that aggression carries a cost.
You mentioned loyalty. And part of that means standing against any government that believes it can redraw borders by force. If Ukraine falls, others may be next. Putin cannot be allowed to conquer and call it peace.
This is a terrible war. But saying Ukraine’s ability to hit back does not matter misses the bigger picture. Sometimes the only way to stop a larger war is to show you will not fold in the face of this one.
Slava Ukraini.
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“It’s not a police state.” Hmm… well here’s a list of Putin critics, opposition figures and journalists who might have disagreed, if they were still alive: The List Is Long: Russians Who Have Died After Running Afoul Of The Kremlin
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This is not a political forum. Restrain yourself and stick to aviation matters. Slava Ukraini!
This is not a political forum. Restrain yourself and stick to aviation matters. Slava Ukraini!
Which country? Oh let me guess!
… Slava Ukraini!
Damn . . . no <irony></irony> tags.
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RAF,
TY for your thoughtful reply. As a smart, intelligent, and articulate individual you are, do you actually think that Putin got up one day and decided to invade Ukraine, redraw its borders, displacing fellow Slavs, killing an entire generation of Ukrainians with no provocation outside of wanting to own Europe and the eventually the world?
Russia’s position has never change. Ukraine remains neutral, does not join NATO facilitating US placement of NATO/US troops, military hardware, and nuclear weapons on Russia’s border.
My information regarding the US led, US funded, US supplied military hardware/software, the US stated intentions and goals for this proxy war comes directly from our State Department and Defense Department website and paper work through the freedom of information act.
The US State Department with the CIA removed the duly elected president of Ukraine and installed Zelensky in 2014. That was called the Maidan Coup proudly, vigorously, and vocally led by Victoria Nueland including videos of her stating US State Department intentions, interventions, supply/support chains, and goals. Zelensky proceeded to bomb Russian speaking Ukrainians killing over 14,000 in the Donbas region.
Putin called for a stop to these intentional provocations resulting in US/Russian treaty called the Minckts Accords. Not only did the US violate the treaty, the US was never going to abide by them, only use the treaty to buy time for a US led, trained, and supplied 850,000 Ukrainian Army, led by Trump 1.0 and avid Congressional support. We built 20 CIA bases in Ukraine to spearhead any covert or overt operation with stated goals of fomenting regime change in Russia, dividing it into five regions to extract and own Russia with all its natural recourses. None of Russia’s responses including eventual invasion of Ukraine to stop this madness came as a whim. Like you, I had to wrestle with the realization my country has gone rogue trying to return US hegemony to post WWII levels as the Global Force for Good.
Russia is not the Soviet Union. The US has a long track record of similar provocations in Libya, Bosnia, Sudan, Somalia, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Korea, Syria, Cheznia, Georgia, Rumania, Vietnam , Afghanistan , to name a few. As a long term US Navy vet, I saw first hand our “fruits” of all of this Global Force for Good. To see with almost glee expressed by so many Americans the United States literally, repeatedly, attacking Russia, by proxy thru Ukraine, intentionally looking for and expecting Russian capitulation, is not only morally reprehensible but insane. We have earned a legacy of death since we have decided to be the global hegemon. That is why I love my country but hates what our government has and continues to do to anyone outside our borders. This continues carnage
will certainly lead to nuclear Armeggedon. Russia knows what being invaded looks like. They have been invaded three times in the last 125 years. Slow to harness but fast to ride.
Thankyou for pointing to reality.
Reality is that Russia under Putin is a derivative of the USSR, his goal is to Make Russia Great Again. Putin was a KGB manager, at one time stationed in East Germany fomenting terrorism in West Germany. His publicly stated goal is to restore Russia to the span the USSR had.
But some fools do things like deny Iran’s expressed desire to annihilate Jews in their ancestral homeland and its equipping and funding of Hama - that is genocide.
Ukraine is increasing capability but does not have the muscle itself to stop Russia cold. Witness Russia’s ongoing attacks on civilians in Ukraine.
EU and many NATO countries are increasing weapon supply and helping increase production in Ukraine.
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You can parrot Russian propaganda all day long, and maybe you even believe it. The rest of us don’t.
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They are more than capable of handling Putin themselves. How do we know? They said so
Your fabricated falsification.
Consistently, since the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014, and through to Zelensky’s visit to Canada in just over a week, Ukraine pleads for the increased delivery of military arms, technical and intelligence support from its allies to hold the Russian invasion at bay, with the faint hope of their full repulsion back into Russia.
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