February 3
I hope the plane also had a FDR as that would certainly shine light in how a well maintained jet practically dove straight down into the ground. To use that dreaded “S” word, the first thought is that the stabilator or elevator jammed into full down while full climb power was set and there was no time to recover.
If I had one small snit on the article, was it necessary to include the last sentence. I normally don’t read the nationality of victims of aviation accidents and it does not add anything to the article. Do we now report in each case x Americans died or x died? Does it matter? If it does Russ, I’m open to understanding.
1 reply
February 3
▶ bucc5062
Everyone aboard were Mexican nationals. Cartel retribution is a possibility.
1 reply
February 3
The first comment about flight control jammed at full deflection makes me wonder if you are a rated pilot. Yes its possible, but so far down the list its in the meteorite impact category. I’m thinking flight instrumentation failure and or spacial disorientation along with inappropriate autopilot usage/ failure. This plane is a hot rod and must be respected particularly in challenging night IFR flight conditions. Things happen fast, Bring your A game.
I am a ATP pilot and party member to NTSB mishap Investigations along with other FAA licenses.
February 3
▶ wally
@bucc5062 & @wally, I hate that this thought even came to mind; is there room for the possibility of a hate crime in this investigation?
Any A&P or the like knowledgeable enough to share what a ground crew member could do to induce such an upset after takeoff?
February 3
Couple videos I saw show a flash of light and the Lear on fire on its way down.
With the kind of high energy impact the Lear experienced I’m amazed that they can recover anything useful for analysis.
1 reply
February 3
▶ LBen
I witnessed that flash too, it was burning before it hit the ground. So I doubt it was a control surface malfunction, weight shift, or a stall. With all the drone activity lately in the area I wonder if a drone ingestion or even gun fire from the ground could be suspect. Also what if the fuel cap was not secured and fuel was being sucked out and ignited as it was ingested? Also, there was an incident in Michigan yesterday of an explosion of a hyperbaric oxygen chamber, [Michigan boy, 5, killed in oxygen chamber explosion, officials say | Fox News] I doubt there was a chamber on board but 100% oxygen in an enclosed area is just as catastrophic.
February 3
I’m thinking birds. Canada geese are migrating now.
2 replies
February 3
▶ Gipper1
There has been mention of an oxygen bottle 1/4 mile from the impact site. Medical flights typically have multiple small bottles and one large bottle mounted in the patient bed. Any miss handling of an oxygen bottle by medical crew or a mechanical failure of a bottle could have caused this.
A fire or major electrical failure is a possibility. There was no response from the Lear when PNE Tower called for a switch to departure. No further communication from the Lear.
The Mexican company had a pervious fatal accident in late 2023.
February 3
▶ Gipper1
Birds don’t fly at night.
The oxygen bottle was intact and probably just launched at impact.
February 3
Sorry, f4gary, that’s what people thought until radar was developed in WW II and large flocks of migratory birds showed up at night.
February 3
Since this thread has already dived deep into root cause analysis, I’ll add my own opinion, which is worth just as much as that of some useless idiot PE nerd who has wasted his or her life studying such things and helping to keep us safe(r).
It was vampires. All the damn vampires.
February 4
I have hit several birds at night. The latest was a few months ago at 4AM at 10500 ft climbing out of MSP.
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February 4
▶ 737Guy
I know of three elevator jam events on airliners. DC8 at JFK where a chunk of asphalt from construction project somehow wound up in the elevator/stabilizer gap. Crew only onboard, fatal to all.
MD80 at Detroit, well past decision speed, airplane was not responding to elevator inputs, takeoff rejected. My recollection is that all on board escaped with minor or no injuries.
Most recent: Privately owned MD80 at a Houston satellite airport, similar to above. Went off end of runway and burned but all onboard survived.
Suggesting this as one of many possibilities with the Lear.
I have hit a bird at night. Birds at my home base fly a lot at night.
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February 4
The reasons most birds migrate at night are multifold: “Migrating at night allows birds to avoid certain predators,” explained Connie Sanchez, who manages the Bird-friendly Buildings program at the National Audubon Society. “It’s also more energy efficient. Birds can conserve more energy on their migratory route by flying in cooler temperatures in the dark.”
February 5
▶ Tailwind14855
Don’t forget Alaska Airlines flight 261 off the coast of California. Improper maintenance on the jackscrew caused that one to end up in the Pacific Ocean. It was an MD-83.