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19h

Tom_Waarne

I doubt very much if anyone screwed up. This is top notch performance in unfriendly waters and things can happen as they did. There is always a slim margin of error and when everything negative aligns the outcome is not good. Real good the fliers recovered and safe. Can any other navy do it better?

17h

jon021177

No. That’s all I had to say, but avweb apparently makes you type 20 characters. This place is a shell of what it used to be.

14h

Raf

No, but stuff happens.

10h

Larry_S

MY guess is that the arresting gear cable snapped but had slowed the airplane down enough such that even with full power, it wasn’t at flying speed, there was insufficient space on the deck left to accelerate and it stalled? IF this is true, I’d want to know more about the cable … were they stretching its life limit or did shtuff just happen as Raf says?

1 reply
9h ▶ Larry_S

KeivnR

THIS^^
Been there, done that. This is the first conclusion I came to. To your point Larry, the part of the arresting gear that goes across the deck is called the pennant and is replaceable. There are changed out every 100 traps, but very, very rarely, they don’t make it that far and fail.
The jet doesn’t stall, it has just doesn’t have enough energy to get back in the air even at 100% power so it settles into the drink off the angle deck. There are PLAT camera videos on YouTube show what happens. There is one video of an E2-C Hawkeye just making it back into the air.

2 replies
8h

Arthur_Foyt

What’s the mission requiring high value assets in that area?
Judging from the costs so far, we’re losing.

8h ▶ KeivnR

Paul_Young

Pennant? No, Pendant. In Naval Aviation and LSO Jargon, though it is a thick cable, it’s often referred to as a “WIRE” with the target wire, No, 3 of 4 counting from the rearmost No. 1. according to the usual Fresnel Lens optical glideslope setting or that’s the way it was back in the day. And Yes, the airplane can and usually does experience an aerodynamic stall when there’s insufficient speed and lift produced to keep the jet from sinking into the drink with AB power applied. Tis the “Breaks Of Naval Air” or as so eloquently stated herein “sh*t happens.” Fortunately, it was on landing off the angle deck clear of the ship as opposed to launch off the bow. Could also have been caused by a hook failure.

1 reply
8h

roganderson60

Whatever the cause, Navy aviators are very skilled and amazing folks. So glad they both were recovered safely. Love my USAF, but carrier operations are beyond.

7h

KeivnR

Damn you autocorrect. Yes sh*t happens.
Hook failure is possible, but that is also very rare and usually caused by carrying too much energy to the deck. The LSO usually catches that and orders a wave off. There’s a PLAT vid of that happening to an F-14. The hook rolls over the camera view.
I disagree regarding a stall. Not having enough speed to generate lift to fly is not a stall. When I’m accelerating down the runway and not fast enough yet to generate flying lift I’m not in a stall. Same here. They are just not going fast enough to generate flying lift but not in stall. Unless the aviator pulls hard and stall the plane off the end of the angle deck.

“t’s often referred to as a “WIRE”
Yeah, I know, been there.

1 reply
6h ▶ KeivnR

Larry_S

Being retired USAF at Edwards AFB, I never knew much about Navy equipment until I wound up in St Augustine working the last 8 F-14 rebuilds, EA-6B, E-2C/D and aggressor F-5’s. On that airplane, they have a nose hiking system so that the airplane sits noticeably high on takeoff which lessens the required TO distance. USAF airplanes don’t have that. Anyhow … I HAVE seen that E-2C video of the jet disappearing and suddenly reappearing … mind boggling. I must take my hat off to Naval aviators! THEY are the ones with Big … well … you know … :grin:

5h ▶ KeivnR

rpstrong

Damn you autocorrect.

Don’t blame autocorrect for the faults of the proofreader.

The hook roles over . . .

Sigh.

1 reply
5h ▶ rpstrong

KeivnR

Sorry I upset you so much. Is his a hobby for you, or do you really get tweaked?

Edited BTW.

4h

Love2fly

A “bolter “ is any event that does not result in a “trap”. The tailhook is 3 ft longer in its full down location than the full extension of the landing gear. A perfect trap is snagging the number 3 wire with airplane in the air with throttle full forward to spool up the engines in case of a bolter. A bolter is usually caused by the tail hook bouncing over the wire when it first hits the deck. If there is any delay in application of full throttle, or the deck is pitching upward during this landing event, the hook portion of the tailhook departs, or the arresting gear/wire separates during the trap sequence…the airplane will not have enough speed nor energy reserves to climb away from the deck. At GQ battle stations, these airplanes become “war weary” quickly which means their performance is nowhere near a new airplane. The stress levels under combat are incredible especially during aircraft recovery. The US Navy knows they have no defense against hypersonic weapons. So, the Truman has been operating as far out of range of Yemen’s home developed and manufactured drone/missile technology adding to mission inflight times, requiring air to air refueling, sometimes multiple times adding considerable engine airframe times, essentially adding tons of wear and tear on the airplane, pilot/crew, deck personnel, ship, systems etc…increasing errors and certainly things breaking. Airplanes do not need to be shot down to be lost. Fouled deck, bingo fuel, evasive ship maneuvers, ship/aircraft crew errors, bolters, etc cause aircraft losses. The US Navy has not fought against a peer group enemy since WWII assuming any body not a superpower does not have advanced weapons, locally engineered and locally manufactured. That attitude that the carrier and its task force is almighty is being proven wrong. Wisely, we stopped attacking Yemen, with drew from the Red Sea and is heading back to Norfolk for repairs. Modern warfare is not big arrow WWII warfare. Lots of countries have weapons and tactics that make a carrier a target vs a projection of power. They know it and we do not want to admit it.

3h

jbmcnamee

Landing a plane on the rolling deck of an aircraft carrier reminds me of football legend Vince Lombardi’s description of a forward pass. “With a pass, three things can happen and two of them are bad”. Being an engineer, I can appreciate the incredible strain put on the arresting gear when you bring a heavy jet, under full throttle, to a stop in less than 100 feet. It is indeed good that they landed on the angled deck rather than off the bow. Getting run over by a carrier would definitely ruin your day.

1 reply
29m ▶ jbmcnamee

WBJohn

“A perfect trap is snagging the number 3 wire with airplane in the air with throttle full forward to spool up the engines in case of a bolter.” Catching any wire with the airplane “in the air at full throttle” is a disaster, not a perfect trap :wink:.