JohnKliewer

At the budding CFII stage of my career I was 26 years old as opposed to Tim McKellar’s age of 22. Even at 26 I could not have been characterized as “wisened by age” anymore than Tim McKellar could have been at the age of 22. And of course back in my early days the term “social media” was not even part of our lexicon, let alone something we used on a daily, or worse yet hour by hour basis.

But even at the age of 26 first priority was always to land back at RVS alive along with an unharmed live student. My second priority was hopefully to impart to my students as much of my limited knowledge as I could while also providing to them a safe learning experience. My mind, my eyes, my ears, my hands, my feet, well, my entire being were one hundred percent engaged to that end.

As immature a 26 year old as I was, I can’t imagine having engaged myself in social media during a live flight lesson of any kind, let alone on a night cross-country flight in the vicinity of weather. To this day I don’t have a Facebook account.

1 reply

Tom_Waarne

Good, accurate and reasonable comments. The folks hiring McKellar are just as liable for not following through with due diligence to ensure this instructor was capable, clear of issues involving his attitude(s) and able to exercise his responsibilities correctly. This was truly a bad mix and should not have had a possibility of proceeding as it did. Big management failure.

johnbpatson

Often wondered why driving instructors, flight instructors and drill sergeants should not be required to do six months of basic theoretical teacher training before getting their tickets.
You know, the basic psychology of learning and latest theories of how people learn best.
Most military effectively do have such measures in corporal and sergeant exams, but do not call it teacher training. But the others – scrape through your own basic license and you are good to teach with no thought involved.

1 reply

chiefaviator

I’m not big on law suits, but this one I think is needed.

The CFI was well beyond any semblance of safety, professionalism or instruction.

He had a history of such behaviors and since this is pretty local to me, complaints to the school from what I hear.

billkight757

The student pilot involved in this tragedy was from Ohio County in Kentucky and NOT from the state of Ohio.

2 replies

12yrvark

I spent my formative years of flight training at OWB. I was a line boy and student at Ayer Flying Service. Back in the late 60s all of their instructors were seasoned pilots and the Owner kept a sharp eye on the operation and a misadventure like this would never have happened. Thunderstorms could roll into OWB quite quickly but were always forecasted pretty well. Sad that with all the electronic marvels in light aircraft today people still blunder into severe weather.

Terk

John. A major part of the CFI curriculum is called FOI, Fundamentals Of Instructing. Done right it delves into teaching/learning psychology. Done poorly of course is just punching the right answer on the exam by rote. I used to be the DOE (Director Of Ed) at a major A&P school. We constantly worked on adding teaching/learning skills to the instructors kit. Unfortunately this does not seem to carry over to flight schools (I am also a CFI and have owned an FBO/Flt school). Your point is a good one and, other than the mandated CFI renewal “classes” developing instructional methods is rarely taught much after certification.

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n8274k

This could be a slippery slope that ends in place no one intends. This instance is particularly egregious, but there needs to be a balance of present responsibility for actions and redemption for immature indiscretions in the past. And this is wrongful death, but will the precedent be applied for increasingly lesser accidents to the point that instructors will be sued and held perpetually liable for the training they provide? Will the FAA or the DPE bear any liability even though they were the ultimate licensing authority? Not bloody likely.

mphelps

To billknight757: Thanks for the correction. I amended the story.

henderrj

ATP is listed in the law suit for one reason - deep pockets. The lawyers hope to make their millions and need someone who can write a check for that amount.

Not sure it was quite clear, but it seems the CFI in question was not at that time employed by ATP, a student of ATP, nor have their blessing to continue his career as a CFI. It seems like the complaint is that he passed the course and they shouldn’t have let him. But, in that case, the lawyers needed to name the FAA, who set the standards for pass or fail. Oh wait - they’ll never get a dime from the FAA!

This is all about money for the lawyers. The family agrees because they want their son vindicated. Sorry, but it sounds like he was an irresponsible 22 year old (surprise!) looking more for recognition (via social media) than to serve his student pilot, employer, or anyone but himself.

The school the student pilot joined probably carries responsibility - but don’t have enough money to make it worth the lawyers’ time. So, ATP gets tagged. I hope that part of the suit is thrown out. Ambulance chasing lawyers shouldn’t be rewarded just because they know how to chase the money.

2 replies

svanarts

The level of social immaturity of that CFI is breathtaking. I can’t imagine putting a student’s shortcomings on blast to the whole world. OF COURSE he has shortcomings he’s still a flippin’ student! I cannot properly express how much I HATE social media. It’s like high school drama for the rest of your life.

WBJohn

I couldn’t agree more with svanarts. My first CFI was 23, with no college education, but his professionalism was beyond reproach. Being an “immature 26 y/o” is no excuse for that abhorrent behavior. Equally worrisome to me (about social media) is the huge number of young people who get virtually all their news and information from it alone, while it appears to becoming more of a misinformation cesspool every day.

Bill_B

What’s not mentioned is that the instructor clearly saw the severe weather in their path. He also did not understand the latency of the weather’s position. Those storms are much further east of where they are shown and should also get a 20 mile berth. Landing at OWB was out of the question long before the weather penetration.

skane1014

It is not “all about money for lawyers.” From the reported facts, everyone in the chain of responsibility failed to provide this student with a competent instructor. This “instructor” had prior incidents indicating that he was incompetent. Every student taking a lesson has the right to assume that, at least, he or she will survive the flight. You appear to base your comment on hatred of lawyers, but if you were injured by someone’s negligence I believe that you would rush to find the best lawyer to obtain maximum compensation!

1 reply

rblevy

I’m not an attorney, but I don’t see the connection to ATP either; I hope a real lawyer will comment. I suspect ATP (which probably has its own corporate counsel team) will move for summary dismissal.

That said, in this case, I see the issue more as this instructor’s actions as PIC, rather than an issue of instructional liability (which would have been the case if the student crashed while acting as PIC without the instructor aboard).

As for due diligence, the Pilot Records Improvement Act requires that “air carriers and operators operating under 14 CFR parts 121, 135, 125, 91k, and air tour operators (91.147)” hiring a pilot check into that pilot’s record, but there is no such requirement for hiring flight instructors. For more on the PRIA, see this FAA web page. That leaves it to the jury to decide, absent an explicit requirement for due diligence, what level of diligence was incumbent on the flight school involved.

pilotmww

These kind of “shotgun” lawsuits will eventually lead to the flight instruction industry to require signing of waivers just like the skydiving industry has for years. I have already signed a waiver for a sightseeing ride over a national park.

henderrj

Have been - haven’t rushed to any lawyers.

And - there’s a large difference in hating a person and hating what they do. Perhaps you could, please, paint with a less broad brush.

I didn’t gather that it was a lack of technical competence, but rather an unprofessional attitude and behavior. That would not lead a personal department to immediately discount a person. Their bad behavior might be easily modified with some good mentoring (he was only 22). And a series of FAA recognized examiners had passed him on multiple check rides. How could one predict that he would make such an egregious error?

But to blame that bad behavior on the flight school would seem to open the possibility of the instructor’s family suing them - they allowed him in the right seat after all!

Sometimes bad decisions are just that. In this case the consequences were horrific. For both people in that airplane. And both families. What good does it do to extract the “maximum compensation” from some company? Will it bring either young person back to life? It might offer a little salve to the family - but otherwise it truly is all about the greed of a bad class of lawyers.

(PS. One of my good friends was a lawyer. He felt the same way about these guys.)

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Dan

Unfortunately if the plaintiff wins, insurance will become even more expensive and all pilots will bear the cost. If the NTSB and FAA did their jobs, there would be other mechanisms to address issues such as this CFI. I could think of several such review boards, tip lines, etc. Law suits should be be the last resort.

Regarding thunderstorms. We all know not to flying into thunderstorms. There is a hidden menace that we cannot see. Building columns of rapidly rising air. Often there is no indication of this rising column of air. I know of four aircraft ripped apart by flying through these rapidly rising columns of air. We can see it now due to NEXRAD and ADSB. I’m not saying this happened in this case but trying to bring awareness of this unseen threat.

glider

I suspect it was an FAA ASI that signed him off to instruct just a few months earlier, after he was trained and recommended for the practical by another instructor.

glider

It could make flight schools a bit more aware their liability risk with who they’re putting in the right seat.

pilot1999

The FOI really does not apply in this case. The instructor thinking that he can somehow avoid the realities of thunderstorms and what they can do to aircraft is the real issue. It was poor judgment on the account of the instructor, not how well the instructor instructed.

ifly

Wow… This new format for comments is really garbage. The repetitive comments being duplicated make the entire thing a complete waste of time.