Continue Discussion - visit the forum 33 replies
October 2019

system

Great video.
I regret the use of the phrase “layers of autonomy,” but Garmin’s intent is made quite clear in the video.
Brave. New. World.

October 2019

system

Seems this should be easy to incorporate on any aircraft with an autopilot. Sure, items such as throttles and brakes may not be controlled but sure seems that the rest could. Since this is a pilot incapacitation event, it would still alleviate a non-pilot from flight controls and better the chances of a positive outcome…

October 2019

system

Even without auto throttle this could be very useful in case of pilot incapacitation. Setting power is straight forward that any passenger can do. The flight controls is where things can get complicated.

October 2019

system

Does my crystal ball see no pilot in the not so distant future? Just get in and say Garmi take me to Nantucket. Garmi will do the rest. Look at the bright side, it may keep us old geezers in the air longer.

2 replies
October 2019 ▶ system

system

I was SO buoyed watching the video, Leo. With us “old geezers” keeling over in such large numbers daily, spending all this $$ to ensure that the pax get back on terra firma safely is likely worth the investment. A great investment for my $50K 172. So Larry never said how the “system” detects that the pilot is incapacitated. Does he have to wear a head position sensor or otherwise wire him/her up?

October 2019

system

Here we go again. Developing Aeronautical Sociotechnical issues, adding expensive complex matter and for the most part inapplicable.

October 2019 ▶ system

system

Most accidents are caused by human error. Solution; eliminate the human from the system.Airlines have reduced (but not eliminated) the human factor from accidents by training their pilots to levels we cannot achieve in general aviation. While there will always be aircraft people hand-fly for fun, for personal transportation autonomous aircraft are the future.

1 reply
October 2019

system

AOPA’s T. Haines: “ But just as briefed, the airplane “decrabbed” from the 10-knot left crosswind and soon plunked us down just left of center on Runway 18 at New Century AirCenter in Olathe, Kansas, and then quickly tracked us back to the centerline. A few seconds later we rolled to a stop. I looked left at Eric Sargent, Garmin flight test pilot, who smiled broadly from the left seat of the Piper M600. “What do you think?” he asked. “Stunned,” I said. “That’s pretty amazing.” And such was my introduction to Garmin’s new autoland system, a first in general aviation.”

Why am I skeptical?

1 reply
October 2019

system

Wait! Is there an ODA in the equation?

October 2019

system

Larry, I think it will just be an EEG to check for brain activity. Then too, in that case, it just may not let me work the controls at any time after engine start.

1 reply
October 2019 ▶ system

system

Ego, mostly. :wink:

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October 2019 ▶ system

system

Ego, mostly? Hmm, I’ll google this one.

October 2019

system

Saw the video. Impressive. May I suggest a sheepherder’s hook extending out of the PF’s seat to hold the incapacitated pilot’s head and upper body away from the controls?

1 reply
October 2019

system

Did anyone else hear the voice of HAL from 2001 Space Odyssey? “I’m sorry, Dave, I can’t land the plane.”

1 reply
October 2019 ▶ system

system

Or…
Cirrus could just eliminate the flight controls, thus creating a tamper-resistant airplane. :wink:

October 2019 ▶ system

system

Now that’s thought provoking. Who would have thought way back when?

October 2019 ▶ system

system

Leo … Larry Anglisano emailed me and answered my question. He said, “the system assumes you’ve checked out if you don’t interact with it as you generally do with the G3000 through CAS messaging.” But you bring up a good point … Garmin could design a system which deciphers your mental state and capabilities and IF it decides you’re a moron who shouldn’t be flying a Piper M600 or maybe you’re just not on your game that day, it could take the airplane away from you much like a “Captain” might. I still wonder if Boeing’s Dennis Muilenburg knows about this latest offering from Garmin … perhaps – with a little ODA oversight – such a system could be coupled to the B737Max8 to get it back into the air sooner ?

THAT idea then begs the next. If the airplane is smarter than the pilot, why do we need the FAA. ANYONE could just go buy an M600 and fly it without a medical because – well – the airplane is smarter than the pilot.

It’s a brave new world out there … someone already said that. Insofar as you are concerned, Leo … I think you’re safe …

October 2019

system

It’s totally apparent to me that Garmin has driven ALL of us here off the deep end on this one !! At what point does TOTAL autonomy negate the need for a pilot at all ?

1 reply
October 2019

system

what happens in an engine out scenario if auto land is selected?

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October 2019

system

It’s amazing how far technology has come…
and how much it requires constant upkeep or else it too becomes just yet another problem itself.

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October 2019 ▶ system

system

By definition, “autonomy” is complete control. Anything less is an oxymoronic pretender.

October 2019 ▶ system

system

Not trying to be a smart-ass, but I suspect that the answer to your question is “a dead-stick landing.”

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October 2019 ▶ system

system

… but lined up on some runway centerline - maybe.

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October 2019 ▶ system

system

Or in some convenient river… :wink:

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October 2019 ▶ system

system

… sucking up batt, no gear or flap extension, maybe only lateral guidance, descending at 240KIAS, no round out? Fore!!!.

November 2019 ▶ system

system

I used to really like technology advancement specific to avionics. Not so sure anymore. I think we’re crossing a line. Not sure what the line is or exactly where it is, but, I sense something happening here and I’m not so sure I’m liking it.

1 reply
November 2019 ▶ system

system

I think Garmin is stepping into the same territory as Boeing’s MCAS; they have not yet figured out the failure modes that can happen because of maintenance, wear, and/or circumstance.

The first time this system “lands” a plane into a bridge that was not in it’s database or mistakenly bleeds off the cabin pressure, or…

1 reply
November 2019

system

What happens if fuel is low and you are not close enough to an FAA controlled airport, but there are a couple of small uncontrolled airports nearby?

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November 2019 ▶ system

system

Orders of magnitude more potential accidents are avoided by human intelligence and never show up in accident reports.

November 2019 ▶ system

system

It’s advertised as being for emergency use only. You already were screwed, BEFORE you pushed the button. Garmin’s lawyers are even smarter than its engineers.

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November 2019 ▶ system

system

Over Los Angeles?

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November 2019 ▶ system

system

“You already were screwed, BEFORE you pushed the button”

You nailed it.
It begs the question for installing the button.

November 2019 ▶ system

system

Yup. How would the presence of a human pilot embue the aircraft with better glide capabilities than it would have with a machine at the helm? If anything, the machine would be more able to extract every bit of available performance.

FAR 91.119 a is a fascinating piece of work…