atpcficto
OK CMOs and FSDOs … you’ve got your marching orders … sounds like we’re gonna “dust-off” those dastardly 44709s.
OK CMOs and FSDOs … you’ve got your marching orders … sounds like we’re gonna “dust-off” those dastardly 44709s.
Yeah, maybe a couple of 709 rides until they get it right, and a 6 month suspension to make sure they have the time to do them.!
Tasks are easily misprioritized while taxiing for takeoff amid accomplishing checklists on complex taxiway and runway geography. I would sooner suspect misprioritized tasks and mistaking runways for taxiways than “contempt for the rules and a disregard for safety at [its] heart”. Not saying that misprioritizing tasks and mistaking runways for taxiways is excusable, but both fall short of contempt. Just safety culture implies determining intent along with ability. Given the chance, this crew will likely never come close to crossing an active runway again.
Amazing isn’t it? Musk can blow up a giant rocket that rained debris back down over a vast area of the earth, and the FAA has already approved the next launch without even beginning to finish a comprehensive investigation.
However, if a pilot misunderstands a clearance the the controller misses the readback, the pilot’s ticket is pulled, and is immediately out of work and must pay for certification and all type ratings again.
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We have been through this (no tolerance) form of enforcement before. This will make a mockery of any SMS, and will end some pilots willingness to report safety issues if there is any chance of losing one’s certificates.
Ready fire aim is this administration’s mantra. Sean Duffy as Secretary of Transportation has no excuse for not knowing the different permutations of pulling vs revoking certificates before shooting his mouth off. This administration cuts no slack for anyone. The press should not be cutting any slack for this administration, the Canadian press in particular.
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He also didn’t use the word revoke even though the context and his gesture in the video (exaggerated umpire calling an out) suggested that’s what he meant. It’s more accurate the way it is.
This is a return to old, punitive FAA philosophy. It didn’t work then, and it won’t work this time. What will happen is pilots will stop reporting events entirely. As others have said SMS will fall apart.
The fact that it feels like we’re in a period of many foul-ups in aviation is proof that SMS (ASAP, ASRS, etc.) and other things have been doing some great work for us. Go back to 80s and 90s and look at the regularity of crashes in the airlines. The planes haven’t changed that much (EGPWS and TCAS are huge improvements, so take this sentence with a grain of salt); the philosophies have.
This is not really a good way to handle events like this as has already been addressed. It is, however, one of the quickest ways to discourage anyone who has the remotest inclinations of becoming a pilot to rethink it from a professional stand point.
They were told to HOLD SHORT, they read back correctly, then crossed a RUNWAY how bad was it in that cockpit? I would like to hear there cockpit voice recordings and maybe if there were video in the cockpit would be nice to see. Are any cell phones still being played with up front…I mean they haven’t taken off yet so surely we can check our “TicTok” right.
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What a great opportunity to introduce ‘Written ATC Instructions’ text to/from the cockpit. Many times the ‘Texted Instructions’ have been given trials with favorable success from both controllers and pilots. It will obviously cost a lot and require a lot of training but the safety factor will be worth every penny.
If a controller wants you to “Hold Short” and the radio frequency is busy. With “ATC Texted Instructions” the controller will just tap the aircraft on his screen that sends “HOLD SHORT” instructions instantaneously to the aircraft cockpit screen and pilot headset. Plus IFR Clearances will be much easier to get right with less radio air time.
Over the past 50+ years, safety has been enhanced. Wind Shear Warning / EGPWS & TCAS, ROAS. A “Just Culture” system was established over the years too with CRM, NASA Reports, ASAP and SMS programs. Before shooting from the hip, DOT Secretary Duffy needs, to gain an understanding of these programs, study the Genesis, value and ongoing evolution of these programs. Convene meetings, consisting of, and not limited to members from the FAA, AOPA, ALPA, 121/135 Safety departments, manufacturers.
Please allow me to start a conspiracy theory.
If the aircraft was uncrewed, with autonomous control and all the infrastructure that goes with it, then this incident would probably not have happened. Meanwhile, the unofficial head of the FAA just happens to own a company that has made great strides forward in the autonomous control and remote of aerospace vehicles. Is there a plan to accelerate the replacement error-prone pilots with much cheaper and more reliable computers? Ker-ching!
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I agree Raf… let’s get the objective data before analyzing the situation and reaching a conclusion.
This is the best response I’ve seen yet, both groups causing serious consequences. Now for the pilots part…they do make mistakes, certain mistakes are unacceptable though. 
Like voting for an incoherent laughing imbecile appointed by a cabal of democrat “leaders” because having a primary is too dangerous for their party?
Heavy handed actions such as we are already seeing in the FAA in the final days of the Biden admin are not going to prevent mistakes, either on pilots’ side or ATC side. Decades ago I was cleared to position and hold while traffic was crossing down field. Then landing traffic was cleared to land while we were waiting in full view of the tower. The landing traffic reported us on the runway and the controller said there was no traffic on the runway. I reported Oh yes we are! the landing traffic did a go around and we were cleared for takeoff with instruction to call the tower later. The tapes were clear. We all talked about it and what could be done in the future, and it was all on the controller. What would happen if the new Admin’s policy goes into effect? Would the controller have his ticket pulled too? I cannot see how this is going to be helpful unless there is a pattern of problems with an individual pilot or controller or for that matter airport layout.
Heavy handed actions such as we are already seeing in the FAA in the final days of the December and January are not going to prevent mistakes, either on pilots’ side or ATC side. Decades ago I was cleared to position and hold while traffic was crossing down field. Then landing traffic was cleared to land while we were waiting in full view of the tower. The landing traffic reported us on the runway and the controller said there was no traffic on the runway. I reported Oh yes we are! the landing traffic did a go around and we were cleared for takeoff with instruction to call the tower later. The tapes were clear. We all talked about it and what could be done in the future, and it was all on the controller. What would happen if the new Admin’s policy goes into effect? Would the controller have his ticket pulled too? I cannot see how this is going to be helpful unless there is a pattern of problems with an individual pilot or controller or for that matter airport layout.
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And now the leopard is eating people’s faces. Who could have anticipated that?
Everyone seems to have substituted the FAA for Transportation Secretary Duffy in their comments. The FAA has said nothing to my knowledge. Is there any precedent of a Transportation Secretary assigning blame and dictating consequences for an incident at this stage (or at any stage)?
It would be interesting to delve into Secretary Duffy’s driving record in search of violations.
That would be an academic exercise, of course, because politicians are no longer constrained by accountability.
Well, let’s see now: Duffy experienced in aviation? Nope. Experienced in rail transportation? Nope. Experience in trucking? Nope. Experienced in driving a car? Yep! So he’s definitely qualified to talk about aviation problems and “pull” a pilot’s certificates. No need to educate himself on these trivial matters, since he wouldn’t have been selected for this position by King Donny if he weren’t qualified.
For me this is the best analogy. Potential loss of life is a big deal whether it’s aviation, law enforcement, or medicine. Suspension pending investigation is a small price to pay. I’ve also never bought into the argument that we’re all human so mistakes are inevitable. It’s the magnitude of the mistake.
Boy, it would sure be nice if the Trump haters here toned it down a bit. Although Duffy should be more precise in his comments - he was no doubt taking a hard public stance because some of the public is being told to panic by the reporting. Besides, if he really wanted to pull pilot tickets for all infractions he would be overruled.
Of course we should also expect controllers to be held personally liable for errors and be subject to personal lawsuits by survivors with no upper limit to awards.
That should help recruitment.
Is Duffy the FAA Administrator or the Secretary of Transportation? Come to think of it, where is the Administrator? On the other hand, maybe the FAA should take more proactive investigation and resolution actions.
While I definitely disagree with heavy-handed enforcement without due process, I do think that a certain amount of situational awareness on the part of flight crews is a reasonable expectation. A quick glance out the window by the FO might have made a huge difference in this unfortunate episode. Thank goodness the SWA crew was doing that!
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This coming from a transportation secretary that approved military aircraft operating on UHF in close proximity to civilian aircraft operating on VHF resulting in a billion dollar disaster. Maybe he should start by pulling his own ticket.
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A 30 day suspension and a checkride with an independent examiner or the FAA Is all that is justified. For the never Trumpers tell me again how much TRANSPORTATON experience Mayor Pete had??.
Are you referring to the recent DC collision? If so, wasn’t that routing/airspace in place for many years?
Easy for SWA to see out front window and crew is already concentrating on the runway. Flexjet crew has a significantly more difficult task to find airborne SWA out small side window.
Not trying to make excuses just throwing out a possible cause. No idea what was going on in cockpit. If Flexjet crew was operating outside company and FAA rules, then punishment is justified.
This is a fairly ignorant post.
Take that a step further:
If the aircraft were uncrewed, with autonomous control, and all the infrastructure that goes with it, and an incident like this happens:
Who’s ticket would be pulled?
In the past, the controller would have been decertified, a review of the causal factors would result, and remedial training conducted. The incident would remain in the controller’s file. If a trend was discovered, well, you know. Nowadays? Nope. ATSAP report and all is good. I WILL say that if the aviation safety reporting system that ATSAP is a part of sees recurring reports from certain individuals, their facility and supervisor get a letter requesting more information.
At MDW since runway 4L/22R is often used for taxi, there ARE hold bars at the 31L and 31C intersections. There is no excuse for this incident other than poor piloting.
Sometimes mistakes are made when sweeping changes are needed. But clearly they weren’t very “mission critical” when the situation was corrected without any issues - right? But I understand some folks will criticize absolutely everything the current administration does - because that’s their purpose in life.
To be fair, the instruction to hold short was given three times, but the aircraft kept moving too fast for comfort. The last instruction was “stop; stay there; do not move”, but that instruction wasn’t understood either. I’m with Duffy on this one.
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This is true now, but not in older photos that you see online. My bad.
Well they were determined I guess or their radio crapped out.
