Raf, the consumer of anything is always the one who pays. This is no surprise.
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Please do come and fly in England and enjoy the âbenefitsâ of a privatised CAA (like the FAA only worse).
87 separate private companies providing various forms of ATC with zero coordination between them. All in a country smaller than California.
Brilliant innovations such as a requirement to have a DME or NDB available to fly the miss on GPS approaches. Two different and largely incompatible electronic conspicuity systems (Flarm and ADS-B).
And some of the highest gas prices in the world.
Itâs all about as efficient and cost effective as the US healthcare system.
Be careful what you wish for.
P
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Tommy, privatizing ATC isnât just a minor adjustmentâshifting billions of dollars onto passengers, small airports, and the backbone of the aviation community isnât merely disruptiveâitâs potentially catastrophic. The ripple effects would hit airline passengers, aviation businesses, and the broader economy like a powerful mountain wave, leaving no part of the system untouched.
BTW, for those hyping NavCanada: Comparing Canadaâs ATC to the U.S. is like comparing a blueberry to a watermelon. NavCanadaâs 3.3 million operations a year pale in comparison to the FAAâs 49 million. It oversimplifies a major and complex issue, ignoring the scale, diversity, and challenges unique to U.S. airspace operations.
You are so right Raf, itâs comparing cumquats to blueberries. Part of the comparison has validity though as most traffic is within an hours worth of the U.S. border. If you really want user pay then track radio calls for clearances and acceptances. When you receive an advisory you as a G.A. pilot are receiving information that may affect hundreds of other people and this must relieve you of the burden of paying for something that ensures âtheir safetyâ as well as yours. If you use the system then pay whatâs required, if not the pay a low base rate for access to the system either through gas taxes ( which really reflects how much of the system you use) or an annual fee based on your past yearsâ activity.
With all due respect to my Canadian mother-in-law, the U.S. ATC is about 15 times bigger than NavCanadaâs ATC. A kumquat is maybe 3-4 times bigger than a blueberry. Although I admit that comparing a blueberry to a watermelon was an exaggeration.
But letâs not forgetâU.S. pilots already pay and contribute plenty to the aviation system, starting with flight schools, where they invest thousands in training. From fuel taxes to maintenance costs, and even supporting local airport economies, pilots are not exactly freeloaders. So, letâs keep the fruit comparisons fun but leave the idea of squeezing more out of U.S. pilots off the table! 
So lets have a nonexistent government âagencyâ run by bilionaire morons who donât know shite from shinola about aviation advising other billionaires to turn over and privatize a well-run, well-coordinated and well-developed safety and operations system to make other billionaires richer. Good plan. What can go wrong with that?
TSA is a perfect example of how that goes. It was created out of necessity because private companies couldnât run the âbusinessâ of passenger security, screenng and managing threats.
Privatization isnât the answer to everything. It will guarantee one thing: doing that will make a crapton of money for rich people without the benefit of the standards AND ACCOUNTABILITY we have now. Is FAA and TSA perfect? Of course not. But I can hear it now. At least when you need FAA help, you donât get on the phone with a bot in a call center in India.
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Lteâs add to that what you will pay for that is now subsidized and provided by our tax system. The $100 hamburger becomes the $1000 hamburger.
So lets have a nonexistent government âagencyâ run by bilionaire morons who donât know shite from shinola about aviation advising other billionaires to turn over and privatize a well-run, well-coordinated and well-developed safety and operations system to make other billionaires richer. Good plan. What can go wrong with that?
TSA is a perfect example of how that goes. It was created out of necessity because private companies couldnât run the âbusinessâ of passenger security, screenng and managing threats.
Privatization isnât the answer to everything. It will guarantee one thing: doing that will make a crapton of money for rich people without the benefit of the standards AND ACCOUNTABILITY we have now. Is FAA and TSA perfect? Of course not. But I can hear it now. At least when you need FAA help, you donât get on the phone with a bot in a call center in India.
There is no such thing as DOGE. The point is moot. Vivek et al. Have obviously never visited a busy ATC facility to see and observe. Our system may not have the most expensive or advanced equipment, but what makes it the best in the world by far are the voices on the radio - weâre called controllers, current and retired.
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So you think you should be able to ignore ATC if you pay user fees to fund it? Right - do you also think you should be able to ignore traffic laws on any toll road because you paid a fee, or ignore a State Trooper telling you to pull over?
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Why shouldnât the users of a system pay for it? And why shouldnât a private entity (more efficient than the government most of us agree) administer the system? This has always been a key tenant of conservatism. I find it amusing how quickly pilots (mostly a conservative bunch) dismiss fairness, efficiency, and personal responsibility when it hits them personally.
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Thereâs already a word for âuser-fundedâ, itâs called âtaxesâ.
âgmbfly98â, what is your solution to the shortcomings of ATC in the US?
Wrong âJonathon Payneâ, tax is from everyone not just users.
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Thanks âRobert Dâ.
I note that NavCanada is not âprivateâ, it is run by a conglomeration of affected parties but not everyone (typically aviation trade associations such as ATAC plus business/GA associations, employee unions, and independent directors appointed by its board).
And has a special financial structure in Canadian law.
NavCanada has been amazingly successful but is critically dependent on cooperation between the entities governing it.
It should be âuser fundedâ, and it is. So now letâs define âuserâ. Show me a single American citizen who does not âuseâ the ATC, at least indirectly. How many people did not pay âshippingâ for something this year? Do they think that those items arrived via horse and buggy? Even the Post Office uses our US ATC to get that $5 Christmas card to your cousin, for pennies at that.
The problems with DOGE (pronounced âDodgeyâ) is that a) it isnât a government entity (yet), b) it is helmed by disruptors with no experience in, or appreciation of, running a government (as opposed to fiefdoms, like corporations), c) itâs primary purpose seems to be to settle scores for wealthy oligarchs.
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And everyone is the user with ATC.
I was a registered Libertarian for about 5 minutes once. Then I started hanging out with other Libertarians. I switched to âindependentâ as soon as I could. Libertarians love to talk about how taxes should only be used for roads and schools, but then theyâd look at a road or a school and say âThat can be privatizedâ.
The federal government of Canada devolved major airports to local control, by a conglomeration of professional licensing bodies and local governments. They pay rent for the land.
Other airports were already owned by municipalities, such as Dawson Creek, Edmonton Industrial, and Kelowna - and hundreds of small community airports.
I am concerned about over-building of terminal - fancy structures and more.
Passenger fees are common.
Anything that carries international, or interstate trade should be managed by the Federal government. The last thing I want is to pay a toll every time I fly.
Logical error! âMatt Wâ: you lump Canadian students with the world.
You ought to be aware of popularity of training in the US given what was revealed investigating the attacks of September 11, 2001.
There is much pilot training in Canada, including the large Pacific Flying Club in southwest BC and simulators in Richmond BC and ON-PQ.
Weather is more attractive in winter in the SW US but training costly because of accommodations and currency exchange.