I disagree, I flew jets ranging from Lears to 747s out of non towered airports for years and never had a problem flying a pattern with slow airplanes.
If the jet’s PIC can’t hack this he/she needs a different profession. Just because you burn kerosene doesn’t make you special. Don’t turn the US into Europe where those with the $$ get first dibs and everyone else can eat sh*t.
ETA: of course, there are sometimes damned good reasons for straight ins besides the convenience of the operator, and I will not argue with those.
Agreed. But sometimes it can hurt as much as it helps, such as reducing the tendency to look out the window, or reporting that one is N instead of the actual S of the airport, etc etc.
Well said, Matt. And. I will add that no radio becomes much less of an issue if people endeavor to fly standardized patterns.
And nothing to prevent them using the wrong CTAF frequency, thus negating any of the advantages of the radio anyway.
Well not really, at our field the A/FD lists glider and helo traffic patterns as non-standard, right hand.
One thing would be people reading and understanding the A/FD prior to operating there.
When you’re on the downwind, and other aircraft below, how is the sequence decided? The first to have called? How do you descend safely through the lower traffic pattern considering blind spots? Does your wake ever cause issues for the smaller aircraft?
There was a time I was in the left pattern for rwy 34 with 5 or 6 airplanes. Everything is going smoothly and everyone is making good calls. Then some guy announces arriving from the west, shortly followed by “joining downwind midfield.” Since I’m past midfield on downwind, I expect he’s behind me. When I call base he jumps in “I’m turning base!” Since I was in a 172 I could look down and see that he was below me. I announced I was extending downwind and did so. Turns out the idiot decided to fly a practice VOR approach (VOR was about 4 miles west) that ends in a circle to land at 500 feet. Never bothered to mention it until he was called out on it.
91.113(g) - the lower aircraft has the right of way, so they should be ahead in sequence. And the aircraft at the higher pattern would likely also be flying a wider pattern.
That’s actually a good point that anyone flying a practice approach should probably also announce what altitude they’ll be at, if other than the standard pattern altitude.
Technically, that lower aircraft would be the one with the right-of-way, but ROW rules are only so good if everyone knows where everyone is. You can’t yield a ROW to someone you don’t know isn’t there.
Best: “…” + “Traffic permitting”
Military Trainers do not follow FAR… and do not care!
On 13 February 2023 I was arriving at Bay Minnette Muni (1R8) within my Phase 1 test area for my Sonex experimental and announced on common traffic CTAF/UNICOM (122.8) that ‘EXPERIMENTAL N130FN was at 10 miles NE and would be entering the 45 for left downwind runway 26 – full stop’. Upon entering the pattern and announcing each leg location I observed that at least two T-6 military trainers (plus one on ADS-B at 3200ft) were in the right pattern appearing to be conducting Emergency Landing Pattern (ELP) or Precautionary Emergency Landing (PEL) practice and were forcing civilian left traffic on long extended downwind legs toward congested areas on the ground.
As an experimental aircraft in Phase 1 testing 14 CFR 91.119, 91.305, 91.319 and limitations provided on the Special Airworthiness Certificate, flying extended downwind legs away from the airport area toward congested areas is not allowed but is patently unsafe for persons and property on the ground not to mention experimental crewmembers. So of course, I did not follow the extended civilian aircraft and executed a base at a point where “if power unit fails an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property” would occur, and a T-6 complained “Don’t cut me off”. I believe, and while I’ll admit my knowledge of military flight training is extremely limited, the T-6 is the burdened aircraft. Even at military outlying fields (OLF) with no Runway Duty Officer (RDO) normally only one T-6 is allowed to perform practice ELP’s at any one time. Bay Minette Muni does not have a RDO assigned.
The question concerns military flight operations at Class G airspace airports (non-towered) and conflicts with civilian aircraft following 14 CFR 91.126. Unless authorized or required (A search of the FAA deviation site shows no approved exemption for military aircraft) pilots make turns to the left in the traffic pattern unless “RP” (Right Pattern) is indicated.
I have copies of letters I sent to the FAA Chief Council, AOPA, Chief of Naval Air Training, and their responses. I’ve also included excerpts from the T-6 Flight Training Instruction and the Trawing Five Fixed-Wing Operating Procedures Manual (There may be a revised version not available to the public).
This is not the first instance of an encounter like this, I remember a when a formation of two F-18’s came blasting through the Pensacola International Airport tower controlled (KPNS) traffic pattern while I was with a primary student in a C-172, without any notice or communication (fortunately they missed us). Remember, Look Outside!
And what were the responses? My understanding is that military aircraft operating in civilian airspace (i.e. virtually all US airspace, outside of active MTRs or MOAs) must still comply with all FAA regulations, unless authorized by ATC. I don’t know who one would have to contact to file a complain/violation with, though.
So right You’re, Mr. Gary Baluha.
“Last call”? No idea.
I think the teardrop after you cross over the airport is extremely useful for safety. Your turn to the right, for a left downwind, gives you a comprehensive view of all the departing traffic & those staying in the pattern—departure, crosswind, & downwind—as you descend to pattern altitude.
If you did a non-standard turn to the left after you cross the airport, you’d be turning your back to the traffic in the pattern & not give up a lot of situational awareness just when you need it the most.
After all. You’ve got to get down to pattern altitude & reverse course into the pattern somehow.
Right again, Mr. Gary Baluha!
I think, Paul, you misread the complaints. I don’t suppose many have a problem with kero-burnering gods flying a straight-in , scattering us chicken in the pattern. But a lot of lesser mortals have taken to staking a claim on ROW over those of us plodding around the pattern by calling “straight-in on a 5 mile final” after their student XC in a 172. I called final: “negotiations over”
Eventually, it seems, everyone has cottoned to the scam & on returning from a pancake breakfast or $100-hamburger is maneuvering for the VIP velvet rope 5 miles out.
The point of this revision is to emphasize, “negotiations are not over” just because you’re called “straight-in.”
Gary - what if it’s one of those busy patterns mentioned with one or more small aircraft on every leg. Where is the higher airplane going to fit in?
Next month, my home airport is not only changing its CTAF frequency, but the runway numbering as well!
This bodes to be a few interesting months…if not years.
Radios are a tool; they should NEVER be a crutch. Mark I eyeball, please…
Chief of Naval Air Training: “We were unable to identify the training squadron, aviators, or event specifics involved…” FAA “14 CFR 91.126 (b)(1) is applicable to EACH Pilot of an airplane and does not differentiate between civilian or military operations, or between aircraft holding experimental certificates and aircraft holding any any other certificate…”
Despite this the following civilian airports routinely see opposite traffic military training:
South Alabama Regional - 79J
Bay Minette - 1R8
Monroe County - MVC
Sonny Callahan - CQF
to name a few,
The following usually have a Runway Duty Officer & will put military traffic in a ‘Delta Pattern’ above the 14 CFR 91.126 or 91.127 civilian pattern:
Brewton - 12J
Evergreen-Middleton - GZH
Bottom line… Commands will espouse in their instructions that FAA rules are followed, but here is a quote from one of their own training manuals:
C102. PROCEDURES AT NON-TOWERED AIRPORTS
Adhering to standard procedures alleviates surprises and increases situational awareness and safety at non-towered fields. It is important to remember that the FAA has passed no direct regulatory requirements for traffic patterns at non-towered airports. The FAA has provided guidance, but it is important to stay alert.
Which of course is not correct.