I agree on the ADS-B being worthless close to airport or in airport traffic pattern. The FAA currently does not allow using ADS-B in for traffic avoidance like it does TCAS. It is advisory only. Unfortunately the Senator who is the chairman of the senate aviation committee submitted a bill not only requiring ADS-B out in class B airspace, but also requiring ADS-B in also. How many airplane owners would be unhappy if they had to spend another $2000+ for another avionics box with dubious value? I doubt many jets or airliners have ADS-B in displayed when on final to land.
The Decline of âSee and Avoidâ
1950sâ1970s
~60â75% effective
Slower aircraft, less traffic â but midairs still happened
1980sâ1990s
~40â60% effective
Radar helped, but many pilots still missed visual targets
2000â2020
~30â50% effective
Busier skies, mixed aircraft speeds, more cockpit workload
Today
~20â40% effective
ADS-B, TCAS, and radar dominate; visual scanning is backup only
Bottom Line:
âSee and avoidâ canât stand alone. Use every tool available, radios, traffic systems, and sharp procedures to stay safe.
Sources: FAA, NTSB, NASA, SKYbrary Article on âSee and Avoidâ
âjust fineâ means to you eight fatal mid air collisions every year, and an unknown number of close calls like this one? You have a strange understanding of English.
Unless and until we are willing to accept a mandate that ALL aircraft have active collision avoidance in ALL airspace bbgun, I think that figure isnât too bad. In fact, I doubt that anything could be done, short of removing pilots from cockpits altogether (and maybe not even then) to bring it down significantly. You realize that you are in far greater danger of having a fatal accident driving to the airport, than dying in a mid-air, right?
You have a strange (mis-)understanding of statistics.
And yet there are those who will reply here, and in other places, telling you how they fly without a radio, and have never had a close call. But they have; they just donât know it.
Iâm a retired CFI. Your âunderwearâ comment tickled me. One of the first âInstructor rulesâ I told new student was âYou are not allowed to scare the instructorâ. Got close a couple of time, but thankfully never needed to change underwear.
I agree. S&A is still useful. ADS-B does not do it all. I am a proponent of âuse all of your toolsâ to remain safe.
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Lemme guess, the upper plane was on a long straight-in approach and couldnât see down and behind. The lower plane was on a long straight-in approach and couldnât see up and behind. If even one of them was doing a normal 90-degree pattern they most likely would have seen the other. I had a close call once where I was getting ready to take the runway at an uncontrolled field and a plane came over the trees (barely clearing them) dragging in on short final without making any calls. I only had seconds to slam on the brakes. Since then Iâve learned at uncontrolled fields to be on the lookout for ânordos and idiotsâ. Scan everywhere and where you least expect them. Theyâre out there and theyâre trying their best to kill you.
Hi!: I vaguely remember that in front of an Air collision, the manoeuver should be pushing stick and banking to the right.
For both Airplanes, this would drive it apart, as it are banking in opposite directions.
It seems in this case the pilot choice was to pass over the approaching airplane. Comments? Blessings +
We donât really know everything about this NMA. For all we know, both planes flew a proper pattern for that runway, except that one was slightly above and behind the other, all the way around. I doubt it was the overflying pilotsâ choice to pass over the plane ahead and below. I suspect that he was simply set up to land a little long, and the guy under him was landing shorter.
What seems obvious is that neither pilot performed a clearing turn before entering the pattern. But you rarely see that in a pattern full of students practicing TnGâs. But there is absolutely no excuse for failing to make position reports.
Take a deep breath everyone. Not to minimize the importance of vigilance, but that clip has been making the rounds on the internet. Watch it again and notice how the top aircraft disappeared instantly. It should have appeared on the runway as the first plane was aborting the approach. Total fake
From Russ:
Not fake. Been confirmed by the local authorities and the registration checks out.
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