Neglecting to extend flaps, trying to takeoff on wrong shorter runway, … happen in the US. Not often but they do.
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Target climb speed is above stall speed, so there is some ability to trade speed for altitude, but eventually stall occurs or an obstruction may intervene.
You don’t know until FDR data is successfully retrieved.
Decades ago a poohbah of Transport Canada was persuaded to go to Yellowknife to look at seaplane operations. He came back raving about the number of float planes on the lake, remarking that a large proportion were one-airplane operations. Changed his mind on helping operators and on regulations.
At the Otter 50th show by Viking at YYJ I met a couple who had just flown down from AK to attend, they were busy providing services prior to the trip.
But the rest of the world has different standards, and techniques, and cultures.
That plays a role especially when things do not go 100% right on a flight.
Well, let’s wait and see if that was the case or not.
People who DO fly the 777/787 have been online saying that the aircraft did not really need 5% flaps to stay in the air after takeoff (under these conditions of the flight).
“It is a clue as to what the crew were grasping.” At that moment anyway, RAT deploying is very interesting.
Investigators should examine the ground that people think the airplane was close to at end of takeoff roll (dust observed), debris ingestion is another think to consider but FDR data if obtained would pinpoint where thrust was lost and might give clues as to why. (Engine parameters and controls.)
Neglecting to extend flaps, trying to takeoff on wrong shorter runway, … happen in the US. Not often but they do.
The Daily Mail of 19Jun25 reports that both of the ‘black bozes’ have been found.
However, I read elsewhere that a video recorder had been found.
The paper reports that the right engine had been replaced in March.
One more Fact:- The u/c WAS selected up, but didn’t complete the sequence. The first action on selecting up the bogie is tilted hydraulically nose down, which the bogies clearly are on the video. The sequence was obviously interrupted then as the U/c doors didn’t open, which would have been the next action.
The recorders on a 787 are Combi-recorders, which record BOTH VCR and FDR data, so you only need to find one.
Leading edge flaps are usually very important to stability when airplane pitched up, until speed increases.
Early in DC9-10 operations in the US, one crashed because it was pitched up aggressively (-10 did not have LE flaps).
FTR, subsequent examination of images suggests flaps were extended at a low setting such as 5 (typically LE slats are out at any TE flap extension value), and that full length of runway was used. I was simply listing potentials - days ago.
Your statement does not include speed those pontificators were thinking of - there is a reason flap extension is used during takeoff,
Instructive in possibilities is B737 at Bristol England on 04Mar25.
Autothrottle disengaged during takeoff roll so crew set thrust manually but too low.
Only achieved 10 feet over end of runway instead of normal 35 feet or more.
Good information thankyou.
What I found most significant was from an interview with the sole surviving passenger. He stated that his first indication of a problem was that the cabin lights started flickering and changing colours. That stands out as an electrical system problem. Hasn’t anyone else seen that interview? That is a big clue.
And there is currently a tit-for-tat India is having with a border country, too.
the higher quality video gave a plethora of information:- The flaps WERE extended (slats can be seen extended); The U/c WAS selected up (the bogies were in the nose down position which is the first item in retraction sequence); The RAT was deployed (clearly visible n the higher quality vid + the distinctive noise and witness statement from survivor). Some form of dual engine thrust roll-back occurred. Hydraulic power was interrupted just after selecting gear up (all four pumps are electrically driven). The RAT would supply electrical power to only one hydraulic pump, which prioritises flight controls.
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Good, increases chance that data survived.
Crash recorders cannot withstand all events, prolonged fire smouldering eliminated data from CVR of PW314.
Maintenance of recorder systems has been a problem before some crashes.
One tactic with dual mode is to locate one in front of aircraft, nose often survives because it tends to be strong (as in UA232 for example.)
Good to know, higher quality video and onsite wreckage photos are useful.
The FACTS with no spin or speculation:- Flaps and slat WERE extended: U/C WAS selected up (the bogies had translated to nose down, but u/c doors did not open). The RAT did deploy (clearly visible + distinctive noise): Some form of thrust roll-back occurred on both engines simultaneously (enough for all the generators to drop off line)
Some form of thrust roll back is the correct answer. I was told by a former 787 pilot that the thrust levers are not physically connected to the engine fuel controls. In simplistic terms the thrust levers “communicate” electronically with the fuel controls. There was a failure of that system. Likely following a major electrical system failure.