mtellis
Wow…pigs do fly.
Wow…pigs do fly.
Made of unaffordium just like leaded Avgas. Mogas and Jet-A Burning Diesels are the future for piston power. Produced globally in vast quantities for vehicles and made from the most renewable source imaginable - dead plants and animals.
2 replies
He deserves to make some money on this, based on his determination and commitment. Well done!
Where do you buy the STC? How much? I want to support this, and, if in a couple of years I need fuel at an airport that only has G100UL I will be set. (I am not holding my breath on that though)
2 replies
I’m surprised. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for production to ramp up and the fuel to become generally available. It will also be interesting to see how long it takes for the FAA to approve the other developers’ fuels.
HUGE news! Yes, George & GAMI deserve untold riches for this! Unfortunately, it’s GA… We need guidance for how to work the political levers to get it at our airports.
I agree somewhat with Kent. Jet A, diesel, and Mogas would be nice but the reality at present is most of the fuel nowadays is burned by planes that require Avgas.
This is a big deal and I’m frankly surprised. After so many years I’ve all but abandoned hope for a solution.
20 years ago, when I bought my Maule, one of the reasons I chose the )-360 was the STC for Mogas. Even then I planned for the failure of Avgas.
I’m all for using it while we have it and I think we should drill and process crude oil until it’s gone and technically Kent is correct, oil IS renewable, but the time frame means that property is not relevant for the duration of man’s stay on Earth.
1 reply
Go GAMI! (And thank you, FAA.) Absolutely the best possible news for GA. The only way that we get to keep flying in the U.S. There is no public support for airplanes flying around distributing lead from the skies.
Well then…if this can happen anything can, I’m absolutely amazed by this. Good on GAMI, they deserve this after all that work!
So…when G100UL fuel shows up at the local airport pump…. Just WHO is gonna pay any attention to the fact I pump it into my little puddle-jumper despite the fact I didn’t bother to pay any money on an STC? Huh? …. Who? (and don’t start yelling the FAA is because they don’t have the time, resources, or manpower to monitor gas pumps.)
IF the new fuel is “FAA Approved” for use in airplanes without any modifications ….then exactly WHY would anyone send money to the “STC-Holder”… for a piece of paper that declares the fuel to be universally safe to burn?
Um, I don’t see 100UL in your recitation.
This ensures the future of high compression avgas engines for which there had to be doubts about long term viability. Kudos to Mr. Braly and the GAMI team. It’s great to see innovation and dogged product development of this kind succeed!
Agreed. I think those of us more than 40-50 years old will always have it, but I’m sure the price will get (more) prohibitive.
I think the last fuel to be legislated out will be diesel/Jet A.
This is great news!
An interesting question for the experimental folks, would we even need an STC? I’m thinking not.
1 reply
So…just to confirm, the 9:1 high-compression pistons on my Mattituck O-360 made me ineligible on the 2021 G100 AML (SE01966WI), but now the FAA says I’m good, right? Will there be an updated AML or does the “all general aviation piston aircraft” save them the trouble of putting one out? Thanks for patient answer(s)!
1 reply
Not necessary for EAB.
Congratulations George!!
If you have an accident and your insurance company finds out you used an unapproved fuel (and I’m sure adjusters will be checking!), do you think they’ll pay out?
1 reply
When 82UL avgas was “introduced” some 15+ years back (I never have seen it for sale) everyone that already had an autofuel STC was automatically approved to use it. EAA and Peterson sent out new fuel tank stickers to everyone that had their STCs. I have one plane with the EAA STC, and another with the Peterson.
Will this be the same for this fuel, or will those of us that have an autofuel STC have to purchase this new STC to use it? Then if Swift Fuel becomes more widely available, will you have to have that STC also??? I can see the tops of my wings covered with stickers…
At our airport, for the 94UL fuel, you put in the STC number for your AC along with other info such as N number otherwise the pump for unleaded does not turn on. I does link that info, your name and the N number to your CC number after the first time. Use a different CC then you need to put the info in again.
1 reply
Right now, this is the GA Story of the Decade.
Congrats!
Since it will cost more for questionable gain, I’m not so sure it’s a help for GA.
1 reply
I think that Paul Bertorelli deserves more credit than Mark Baker.
He wrote some great explainations of the details of the situation that probably got a lot more attention than other proponents.
Thanks Paul,
Hope this G100UL works out for GA economically.
Time’ll tell.
The trend these days is to use any change on any commodity as an excuse to raise prices higher than the roof.
Congrats to George and his team on their tenacity to get this done. What happens to the EAGLE initiative now that GAMI has an STC?
2 replies
Yep. And because it is the right thing to do, even though I could probably get away without buying it. I suspect most will do the right thing. And those who don’t are probably skimming free Wi-Fi off their neighbor…and there’s no fixing them.
It would probably be less expensive to purchase a piston aircraft with the Jet A fuel engine as standard equipment. Does anyone know why Cessna canned the Jet A Skylane? There ain’t much doing with the Skyhawk model, either.
1 reply
The diesel Skylane on my field was in the maintenance shop sans cowling more than it was in its own hangar. In fairness, anything new will have teething pains; but diesels are on the chopping block in land-based vehicles due to particulates. Many European cities are banning diesels, and natural gas-fueled engines seem to be what Cummins is betting on. As a diesel fan, I don’t like it, but that’s the world in which we live.
I’m a quarter inch away from not renewing my AOPA membership. I’m tired of invitations for credit cards, frantic emails needing money, daily emails that are OLD news compared to other outlets, and Mark prancing all around pretending to be EAA. They need to reconstitute the Wine Club … oh, never mind.
PB’s videos will become the preeminent example of video work, IMHO.
It’s already happening - Santa Clara county already banned the sale of leaded Gas at the two airports they manage. And it’s being proposed by other municipalities here on the west coast.
The same thing that’s happened to ALL the other fuel initiatives: slowly fading away and forgotten to history… (except by Paul B.)
I don’t understand the marketing plan. GAMI plans to persuade airports to switch to a more expensive fuel, in a world where iPads allow price comparisons - and to do this knowing that each potential customer will have to stop at the pump, dig out their phone, and pay $500 for the right to use the product?
Give away the STC: heck, e-mail one free of charge to every aircraft owner in the registry. Get a royalty on each gallon sold. That gets you a) universal awareness b) zero speed bump for potential customers and c) lower barrier to adoption by airports, who will dislike the price but hate the speed bump. Yes, it will still be more expensive: that alone could kill the product everywhere that local regulators don’t require it - but if the difference is small enough it might not: there’s maintenance value in eliminating the lead.
There’s another problem with the “make the money on the STC” plan. Airports have only one tank for 100 octane. Pilots facing a pump with G100UL are going to just use it, creating many, many out-of-compliance situations - unless GAMI plans to require expensive modifications of the pumps (this just keeps getting worse). Creating a lot of non compliant aircraft just can’t end well.
Give away the STC, proactively. Smaller piece, bigger pie.
Ban it; I DO NOT NEED 100 octane nor lead.
From what I can tell neither the EPA nor FAA nor Santa Clara county particularly cares to promote little private planes.
YES!
Paul’s rhetoric is likely responsible for the majority of this win. I am sure Mark Baker was taking heat for the piss poor coverage of this issue. I got no positive response from them regarding the gross errors they published regarding Swift UL94 “you need an STC, bla bla” when you don’t if you have a 91/96 or lower octane requirement in the type certificate.
The FAA should pay for the STC for those 100LL aircraft that require an STC.
I non renewed my AOPA membership in March, after 30+ years. I don’t think I will go back there.
Great news, hopefully there will be a licencing agreement with the European Avgas producers.
Congratulations to GAMI!
The two questions I have, or at least wonder about are:
How much money has GAMI invested in the G100UL project so far? With no ROI as of yet.
And now that the STC has finally been approved, when will we see a clean-shaven George Braly?
H N, what about experimental airplanes? We don’t need an STC to run unleaded. How does your pump handle that?
1 reply
That’s how it’s going to work per George in the AOPA interview video. GAMI already has producers and blenders in the pipeline.
Great news, and it’s about time. I agree about Paul Bertorelli’s contribution toward getting it done. The UL issue had been in the spotlight on and off, time and again, but Paul turned on a floodlight. More people were able to get a much clearer and more comprehensive view of the issue and the progress to that point. So congratulations to Paul Bertorelli as well!
Exactly. Focusing on just the cost of the fuel misses the point. Not to mention not having to rely on the single manufacturer of TEL.
I’ll bet in short time, EAGLE will “suddenly” make a breakthrough and “discover” a new candidate 100LL-replacement fuel.
I check the plugs at least every 100 hours to monitor engine operating conditions…don’t you?
You should buy the STC because the money goes to GAMI and the guy that made this happen. George spent untold amounts of his own money developing it. He deserves to get paid back for his investment in time and money, plus some.
There is no question that SAF (sustainable aviation fuels) are part of the future. However, the superb efficiency, performance and power to weight of a high performance piston engine solidly has it’s place in General Aviation. BSFC can be 0.38 pounds of fuel per hour per HP produced, in a lightweight and simple powerplant, such as the Continental IO550. At about 3/4HP per pound, only turbine engines with double the fuel burn per HP produced do better. The turbo diesels are only 0.4HP per pound, and are not significantly better with regard to mass of fuel consumed, as Jet fuel is considerably heavier than Avgas.
1 reply
That’s a dangerous way to think Arther.
In the words of Martin Niemöller “Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.”
Read the story again. It says right on there that they will be opening a store online soon, where you will be able to purchase it.
That’s a great question mike. My plane is experimental as well. I didn’t see anything excluding us from the STC.
Like everyone else, I’m waiting to see how much more this new fuel will cost. I understand the boutique nature of avgas, but am hoping that its ability to go through pipelines (which 100LL can’t due to its contaminating lead content) will eventually mean a reduction in retail price from what we’re paying now. Fingers crossed. At any rate, I’m shorting Innospec now.
1 reply
Quoting the article: “It’s unclear if this brings other players into the 100-octane unleaded fuel market.”
This refers to potential FUTURE event(s). The future tense of “bring” is WILL BRING, not “brings”.
I beleive the intentions is causative, hence present tense.
Does GAMI and G100UL deserve the Collier trophy?
I’m actually serious about that.
3 replies
A pound of Jet-A weighs the same as a pound of 100LL.
You mean density, of course, but the compression ignition engine is better, overall, than the spark ignition engine. Given that the Jet-A is 10% or so more dense, it is also returning more than that to the prop. As efficiency is based on a unit mass of fuel, overall, the diesel is far superior.
Yes. This is exactly what those are for. Kudos again to GAMI and AvWeb. Class acts. And very pure examples of how the “little guys” can win through perseverance and intelligence.
"Prices haven’t been established yet, but Braly expects them to be similar to those charged for the Petersen autofuel STCs, which typically vary by horsepower between $130 and $500, but more for some engine models. "
" STC Prices haven’t been established yet, but he expects them to be similar to those charged for the Petersen autofuel STCs, which typically vary by horsepower between $130 and $500, but more for some engine models. "
If this plays out the way we all hope it will then yes, absolutely.
Agreed. Paul Bertorelli’s excellent 3D Cyber journalism and influence on this matter deserve recognition.
Jet fuel is about 3/4 lb heavier per gallon then gasoline.
Braly’s complete interview regarding GAMI unleaded fuel 02 Seprember 2022.
https://youtu.be/zn4IU87CEMo
I’m TIRED of being ignored by the FAA, the EAA, and the AOPA. I DO NOT NEED 100 octane nor lead. Gimme 94UL and I can fly cheaper and with less maintenance. These a-holes do not care for me so why should I care for this non-solution?
Everybody is happy for a more expensive fuel? I have waited 40 years for just 94UL so how in the heck is this “good for private pilots”?
Oh Jeesh…. another “Insurance Underwriters are the Real Regulators” argument…ad nauseum…
Besides……They’d have to prove that the USE of that fuel was the CAUSE of the accident.
The point isn’t that I plan to cheat (because I don’t plan to act irresponsible OR illegal)…. my question is HOW will they enforce users to purchase the STC prior to using the fuel? What if that new fuel is the ONLY fuel available on the airport…? And what about the Loss of Privacy involved if one has to enter personal or identifying information simply to buy fuel…?
My airplane doesn’t need the lead…. Just let me choose if lead is added to avgas AT THE PUMP….I’ll choose without lead and I’ll be happy.
“I non renewed my AOPA membership in March, after 30+ years. I don’t think I will go back there.”
You may want to re-think that decision. In the video George Braly says “…I want to specifically mention that the the members of AOPA that have provided their dues and their other financial support and donations, that their money to AOPA has been really well spent and and it’s some of the best dollars they’ve ever spent because of the support that we’ve had from Mark Baker and AOPA.”
Yes.
“Expecting more foot dragging by the FAA.” What the hell do you think has been going on at the FAA for the past 13 years? Are you Rip Van Winkle or just totally ignorant?
And making them look like the fools and idiots that they long ago proved they were regarding avgas replacements.
There are still lots of questions surrounding this fuel. The FAA has no capability to test this fuel, so how was its compatibility with avgas engines determined? How was it tested? What is it made of and what are the other factors affecting its use such materials compatibility, storage and toxicity? Avgas has a published specification. Does this? Who is going to make it and where? Price is the least of your worries compared to the other factors.
2 replies
There have been multiple articles over the past decade anwering those questions: G100UL formulation, testing protocols, results, etc. Usually with the FAA repeatedly moving the goalposts as GAMI met each objection (“Oh, you passed that test? Hmmm, how ‘bout THIS? Did you think of THIS? Oh, you did…. Well, then…”.)
This video by George Braly has a brief summation of some of the test procedures:
https://youtu.be/zn4IU87CEMo
According to what George Braley has said, the extended AML is already complete. It was completed prior to their last application to the FAA for the STC to be issued. I would expect that it will be available on their upcoming website so that your STC paperwork will be specific to your engine and aircraft. As for EAB application, if you are using a Lycoming or Continental engine, it is likely included in the list of engines on the AML. What has not been mentioned that I know of, is where Rotax engines fit in all of this. Rotax are approved for auto gas or 100LL, but I am assuming, to be legal, they would need an STC to qualify for G100UL. Basically an FAA paperwork thing.
That is one reason why the FAA was resisting the use of the STC process for approving G100UL. They wanted it to be approved as a fuel for all aircraft, like 100LL, which is why they went through the PAFI initiative and now the EAGLE program. However, since GAMI declined to participate, the STC was their only alternative. Perhaps at some future point, if the G100UL rollout is successful, the FAA may issue a blanket approval for all spark ignition engines as 100LL currently has. Stay tuned…
No new factories will need to be built. All of the components for the fuel are readily available, mostly from existing refineries and some from specialty chemical producers. Distribution and transportation will be the main problems until it becomes more widespread. As Paul B. speculated, when G100UL becomes more widely accepted, additional refineries, who do not produce 100LL, may choose to begin producing it since it avoids the segregation issues with leaded fuels. At the FBO level, users can simply switch to G100UL in their existing tanks since it is totally mixible with 100LL with no adverse effects. Over time, any residual lead will eventually drop to an extremely low level. Unless the EPA mandates new tanks or a special cleaning process, there would be no reason for installing new tanks and or piping. The only change might be to adjust the metering system to reflect the different density of the unleaded fuel for pricing purposes.
There is no government “specification” for 100LL. It is an ASTM standard that the FAA requires any maker of avgas to comply with. George Braley has published a similar specification for G100UL so that any company who desires to produce it can do so by adhering to the spec. GAMI has one of the most sophisticated engine test cells in the country at their facility in Ada, Oklahoma and they have done all the various detonation and compatibility testing using their two high performance engines. George went through seven major presentations with FAA subject matter experts who pretty well covered all of your issues and more, and was able to satisfy each group. The concerns that the FAA home office types voiced at the announcement of the EAGLE initiative had already been addressed in those seven meetings. It was a simple red herring so that they could get funding for yet another waste of taxpayer money.
GAMI’s new fuel will not be sent through pipelines either. It will be moved by truck or rail, as explained by Paul B. in one of his excellent videos. It has nothing to do with the presence or absence of lead, but with the logistics and methods used for transporting large volumes of fuels by pipeline. Since both 100LL and G100UL are moved by truck and rail, the cost of distribution will likely have no effect on its retail price.