jimhanson

VERY cool to find these “insider” things. I’ve been lucky enough to meet and speak with several astronauts and talk with them in enough depth to see not only how focused they are, but several “insider” personal anecdotes.

We lionize our heroes and ascribe superhuman attributes to them, but when they show their human side, they become even more believable and give us hope that we too might be capable of doing great things–but isn’t that an almost-universal attribute of all great people?

Ron_Wanttaja

Good subject for Engineer’s Week. Engineers aren’t the dry humorless nerds we’re usually depicted to be; forty years in the space business saw plenty of laughs. Earliest that comes to mind was an Air Force satellite in the '70s that developed issues with its attitude control system. Lieutenant Knight came up with a workaround which saved the mission; it was dubbed “Fly By Knight.”

One pair of satellites received in-house names in honor of one of the engineers who had developed breast cancer and underwent a double mastectomy. Her plastic surgeon had given her two options of “styles” for her breast reconstruction. “Perky,” “Sporty,” and the lady are all doing fine.

system

The parachute deployment is one of the reasons why they send robots…
It also is a reminder of how weird it is down there – very thin atmosphere means earth rules do not apply.
I notice the one instrument which does not feature on the downloads is a thermometre reading. If people actually realised how cold it is on Mars, alot of the nonsense about it would stop. All this stuff about having people up there by 2030 or 2050 – we can barely keep people at the South Pole, on Earth, and the South Pole is a lot warmer than Mars…

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domeair

What a great article - truly inspiring reading about these achievements and also the tone/sentiment in which it was conveyed - thanks Paul! The last couple of sentences and the timing on the math cracked me up.

system

Competition is good. This competition specifically between SpaceX and NASA has been good from an engineering, purely technical standpoint as well as tongue in cheek humor. Now we have RUD/Rapid Unplanned Disassembly, DMT/Dare Mighty Things, OCISLY/Of Course I Still Love You, JRtI/Just Read the Instructions, aSoG/A Shortfall of Gravitas, SURF/straighten up and fly right, Merlins/F-1’s, and the long forgotten TLI/trans lunar injection.

Of course I still love you. The rapid unplanned disassembly resulted from dare mighty things. I straightened up and fly right largely because I just read the instructions. I may have a shortfall of gravitas but still enjoy Merlin and F-1 during the trans lunar injection. Look up…you know where I am. Yeah, even engineers can be “cute”.

Great article, nice diversion from the usual “controversies of the day”, and a reminder both the private sector of the USA and the American government are capable of doing great things AND having a sense of humor while pushing the boundaries of technology.

system

Good Day, eh?
How’s it goin’ eh?
Hey… what if that giant SpaceX can was fulla beer, eh? >snicker snort<
It won't be full for long with YOU around, hoser…

system

I would use “is” rather than “was” to describe Mike Collins, as he’s still with us at 90.

system

It’s no different than being on the moon. Actually, slightly less difficult, since mars actually has an atmosphere (as tenuous as it is). Getting to mars and back, on the other hand, is the real challenge. And landing and then taking off again. But actually being on the surface isn’t the difficult part.

system

While “Dare Mighty Things” may be JPL’s ethos, I think it is worth reminding the more modern audience that the person who first penned those words was referring of course to life in general, and to his conception as to how it should be lived.

Considering his life as a rancher, hunter, explorer, author, soldier, and politician he certainly practiced what he preached…among other things he remains the only person to have been the recipient of the Medal of Honor [as was one of his sons] and the Nobel Peace Prize.

I strongly suspect that Mr. [Theodore] Roosevelt would have been extremely impressed, but not surprised, by this latest achievement of American technology. Bully.

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Andy_T

Paul, I set a link to your [cute] article to Mike (Collins). Hopefully, he’ll deign to weigh in on exactly what he thinks!

Dan_Chang

Hear hear

maule

Well presented article. Nice to see a mainstream manufacturer being realistic.

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Larry_S

Now if we could just get the endless stream of “vaporware” VTOL manufacturers with insane people mover ideas to do the same UNTIL battery technology matches their nutty ideas.

jimhanson

It would be interesting to have a “Futures Market” on the future viability and certification on many of these “Dreamware” projects. Those that REALLY BELIEVE the hype could buy options on the stock early–if the project DID deliver, they would make a killing.

The “Futures Market” would also be a barometer of the REAL public confidence of the proposed aircraft. As it is, we are bombarded with the unproven and uncertified “hype by press release”–and the projects usually fade silently away.

A “Futures Market” would be a bonanza for those able to pick the winners from the wanna-be’s for electric airplanes.

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charlee

Perhaps this is related to the fact that the X-57, which is based on the Tecnam P2006T, has not flown yet.

Red.Jimbo

Meanwhile, thousands of engineers with a basic understanding of energy storage are saying, “I saw this coming.”

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JimH_in_CA

That looks like a flimsy excuse to stop the development of a currently impossible aircraft.
But will it satisfy the investors ?
As an electrical engineer, until a battery is developed that has 10x the energy density in kWhrs per kg, none of the aircraft in development will fly ‘far’.
Even then, the recharging infrastructure at airports will need a huge upgrade in capacity.

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Paradoxical

Yep.

jjbaker

Tecnam isn’t exactly known for being full of bloomy 3d generated shine and glory and the companies management isn’t exactly known to burn investors money into thin smoke.

Stopping a project before it is hyped up beyond all recognition, just to ride on the E-Everything bandwagon, could just be sound and solid business management skill.

Reality may not always be as beautiful or charming, however, it always wins in the end. Research yes, eyes wide open, yes. Dreaming… and telling people that something currently impossible is possible… no!

domeair

Ironically refreshing to see a proven/established OEM admit that they’re not going to deliver what they’d hoped to and be upfront and clear. Electrically based powerplants are clearly the future for light GA and so we’ll just have to wait for that miracle energy source breakthrough…in the meantime, investors with interests in other wholly electrically based airborne vehicles will no doubt be asking some awkward questions in the next few weeks and months. Canary in the coalmine?

m11

What like Pipistrel and Eviation, you mean?

m11

All the usual naysaying, head-in-the-sand luddites emerging in the comments section as usual on this subject, I see.

Obviously, with battery technology where it is currently, battery-powered aircraft are no match for long-haul aircraft but they are already a serious contender for short-haul operations… which is half the air-miles currently done in the USA.

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Raf

“The proliferation of aircraft with ‘new’ batteries would lead to unrealistic mission profiles that would quickly degrade after a few weeks of operation, making the all-electric passenger aircraft a mere ‘Green Transition flagship’ rather than a real player in the decarbonization of aviation.”

Talk about an eBuzzkill!

johnbpatson

Guess it is the fast discharge from full to empty which Tecnam found caused the problems. Electric cars do not seem to have it – there are 10 year old models, used every day, which still have over 90% of their capacity. But then they are not run full power through take off and climb.
Looks like hybrid will get there first – but that requires lots of calculations. Toyota Prius, while good for a petrol (gas) car consumption wise, got thumped by diesels…

gliders

Here is a link to Transport Up, a page listing many, but probably not all, eMobility offerings.

https://transportup.com/the-hangar/

Could be of some use to speculators.

gliders

I have to wonder if the factors leading to the decision include market circumstances - such as shrinkage of the pool of potential buyers.

jjbaker

According to the “Last Generation” doctrine, everyone financially capable of getting behind the security gate of any airport is to blame for the planets untimely (yet imminent) implosion. The “Rich” are the new target, the manner of propulsion in use will not absolve the defendant from getting punished. IOW, ypur plane will be painted and abused, regardless of the size of its battery…

This freakshow will not end until morale improves, or we are back to traveling by Donkey. Another bunch of “naysaying luddites” are the folks at BMW (Baltimore Motor Works, right?) who are seemingly ready to jump off the E-Hype wagon or at least indicate that a 2030 -2040 end of fossil fuel burning vehicles may be a tiny-itzy-bit utopical. Stay tuned.

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f4gary

I’m shocked…

dcmarotta

Interesting comments about range but, in the USA, there is an FAA requirement for 30 minutes endurance at landing. The Pipistrel electric, which is touted as a training platform, claims an hour of endurance on a charge. That leaves thirty minutes for training and that is not sufficient endurance for credible training.

I’m all for electrics when there is battery capacity, and I understand the need for development of the aircraft before the fuel source is available, but calling folks who don’t agree with the hype luddites just marks you as an… Well, you know who/what you are.

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Larry_S

“Dreamware” project. You just coined a new word, Jim.

Larry_S

Great point, Jim. Just look at the current dilemma of the FAA saying they’re gonna approve use of 91UL. Great. BUT … where’s the infrastructure to support 91UL and 100LL? OR – for that matter – to support leaded and unleaded fuel. It AIN’T there! Dream all ya want … it AIN’T there.

Larry_S

And that’s why Al Gore, John Kerry and all the other ‘rich’ folks fly their gas guzzling, planet polluting bizjets to the usual tree hugger conferences telling the luddites that THEY must switch to electric cars, et al.

rammstark

If you think Tecnam is pie in the sky, re-read https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/towplane-concept-tested-for-electric-aircraft/. Based on what I read about the founder of this concept, a dreamer and his investment money will soon be separated.

Raf

Tecnam has spoken, the eAircraft world listens!

dnickerson80h

This is capitulation of Tecam on electric aircraft is even more startling when you realize how embedded the Chinese government is with Italian aerospace companies.

rpstrong

According to Pipistrel’s brochure (downloadable from their website), the maximum endurance is fifty minutes PLUS VFR reserve.

Raf

Extremis malis, extrema remedia.

gwrallen

Battery pack density would need to be about 1500wh/kg in order to start being a serious contender on very short routes (sub 30 min). Current packs are about 250wh/kg, with Amprius claiming 450 wh/kg cells (not packs).

So most likely 20+ years to go, and much longer for long haul. Hopefully SAF or hydrogen solves those problems in the mean time.