Continue Discussion 22 replies
June 2023

Ken_S

“American Airlines has been fined $15,565 by the Occupational Health and Safety Association (OSHA) for safety violations in the death of a Piedmont Airlines ramp worker” Gee, I know you can’t put price on a human life, but $15K is pretty sad. OSHA has fined companies more (far more) than that for safety violations that did not result in death or injury.

1 reply
June 2023

adainv

It sounds to me like employee incompetence, or not paying attention. When the beacon is flashing, you stay clear of the engines, which was not done. It is tragic that it happened, and I have sympathy for the survivors, but ramps are not a place to be careless.

3 replies
June 2023

bobdc6

And then there’s baggage carts, belt loaders, fuel trucks, all running around at speed, multiple ways to get killed on the ramp. It’s amazing that the death toll is so low.

June 2023

cnhinch

“The NTSB preliminary report said the worker had been told in two separate meetings just before the arrival of the aircraft to stay away from the engines on the Envoy E175 until they had been shut down and the aircraft’s beacon was off.”
There should not have been a fine in the first place. That only opens the door for needless civil litigation over an incident that was wholly the employee’s fault. Everyone feels bad for the survivors’ loss, but short of putting employees on a leash, what else could American have done?

1 reply
June 2023 ▶ cnhinch

glider_CFI

What else could have American done? After more than one warning, move her to the baggage area or … fire her?

2 replies
June 2023

jeffaajones

It seems to me that American Airlines (subsidiary Eagle etc…) had done all it could do short of firing this employee for not following the safety protocols put in place by the airline. I am with the others that commented, what else could AA do? I am no stranger to the ramp either. I have performed thousands of walk arounds on AA ramps as a pilot for AA for 34 years. Many a time waiting in the clear while my aircraft pulled into the gate with the engines running.

1 reply
June 2023 ▶ adainv

Tim_S1

Rampers also get treated like absolute garbage, especially by regionals and contractors like Menzies or Unifi.

They’re working an extremely physical job around a lot of

June 2023

n8274k

Airlines need to be much more selective in the hiring of staff at every level. The seniority of below the wing staff gave a false impression that safety was a given just because they made the job look easy. It’s not a job anyone can or should do. Everyone brings certain attitudes and aptitudes to their jobs and if an applicant doesn’t display them in the interview, it’s in everyone’s best interest not to offer them the job, no matter how badly the airline needs to staff the position.

June 2023

kennethdiaz59

Hard to believe this could happen again in such a short period of time

1 reply
June 2023 ▶ Ken_S

gpitts77

Boy how is that a fix. Someone dies and the government gets money?

1 reply
June 2023 ▶ gpitts77

NewUserName

Works about the same way as higher taxes solves the income gap (which they mostly measure pre tax for the studies).

June 2023 ▶ kennethdiaz59

NewUserName

Cluster analysis is interesting. Wouldn’t be surprised to see another within a few months.

June 2023 ▶ glider_CFI

rpstrong

She didn’t have a personal warning; she attended safety meetings. From the prelim report:

“The ground crew reported that a safety briefing was held about 10 minutes before the airplane arrived at the gate. A second safety “huddle” was held shortly before the airplane arrived at the gate, to reiterate that the engines would remain running until ground power was connected. It was also discussed that the airplane should not be approached, and the diamond of safety cones should not be set until the engines were off, spooled down, and the airplane’s rotating beacon light had been extinguished by the flight crew.”

1 reply
June 2023 ▶ rpstrong

NewUserName

Perhaps safety theater instead of actual active supervision and management? I saw this in the Army. If your people are conscientious and well led, the box check meetings are overkill. If not, they are a waste of time that aren’t being listened to, and not actually be being seriously performed.

Of course, the leadership has covered their buttocks successfully and that’s what’s really important.

June 2023 ▶ jeffaajones

bbgun06

According to the video, some of the Envoy ramp workers were trying to get the attention of their obvious colleague, but to no avail. If all the ramp workers were issued radio headsets so they could communicate in a noisy environment while engines are running, there might be fewer of these accidents. However, that doesn’t absolve the individual of responsibility to remain alert.
There cause of this recent Delta accident remains to be determined.
There are only two such accidents in recent memory amid 45,000 flights per day in the US. That’s actually a testament to the high level of safety we have achieved.

June 2023

Carl_N

The death of this ramp worker has been ruled a suicide by the medical examiner. Upon that determination, the NTSB halted its investigation.

https://nypost.com/2023/06/26/airport-worker-david-renner-who-was-sucked-into-engine-died-by-suicide/

June 2023 ▶ adainv

Don_Johnston

“It sounds to me like employee incompetence, or not paying attention.”

Actually, it wasn’t incompetence or not paying attention. It was suicide.

June 2023

Tonyag71

Sounds like improper training . A properly trained ramper knows not to approach a aircraft until the becon light is off and engines shut off and you get the the thumbs up from the marshaller that it is ok to approach. The ramp is no place for complacency or in proper training . Safety is #1!!!

June 2023

JohnKliewer

The Guardian is reporting that “the medical examiner” has told the NTSB that this is a suicide case.

June 2023

maule

Watched Blancolirio. Was a suicide. A particularly horrible one.

June 2023 ▶ glider_CFI

Tracha5683

What else could American have done? As a layman a few things come as obvious. But if possible in engine design implement some sort of safety precaution that might prevent allowance of bodies injection. (Square Peg Round Hole) Or/And Form physical impediment near hazards with stringent protocol in work environment! Remove any worker ability to encounter running engine hazards! Oh and I’d like to hear more on this suicide by airplane engine story!

August 2023 ▶ adainv

erichdc

Tim S is correct. Airlines talk safety to ground crews, and insist that cargo doors be opened within time limits or else the ramper gets reprimanded. Many times over the years I’ve had cargo doors opened while the right engine was still running. I now shut down he right engine before blocking in every time for this reason. The company is covered because of “training, policies and procedures” meanwhile supervisors browbeat ramp workers to hurry up ignoring safety. It’s an industry problem, not an individual airline problem.