Unstable approach too fast and unwilling to o make an overshoot {you Can Not force these machines onto the ground } We just saw the same condition in TN this past week end was same problem { same results } !!!
I have seen this same scenario again and again for the past 65 years !!!
On short runways I used to select a taxiway that intersects the runway and brief my copilot that if I’m not on the runway by taxiway “?” then just say go around. Of course the plane should be on glide path and at the correct speed at 500 ft., 100 ft. and crossing the threshold. On a runway like St. Barts 75% of my thinking would be plan on a go around and only land if everything goes as plan. Last chance is passing the predetermined taxiway. And then I retired.
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“On a runway like St. Barts 75% of my thinking would be plan on a go around and only land if everything goes as plan.”
Wisdom for the ages and probably part of the reason you lived to retire having not bent any metal, I’ll wager.
St. Barts French Aviation Authorities require a special permit to operate into and out of SBH.
So a little dual instruction from a CFI with landings at SBH will be required.
St. Barts, my hobby horse since I used to fly in there during a previous life. Whoever says to “just keep proper speed and glidepath” will surely be going around using this method. There are so many variables when landing on runway 10. Turbulence and gusty winds will totally destroy the confidence of a first-timer going in here. BTW Paul, the sign you refer to means “roundabout ahead, you do not have the right of way”. By itself a valid sign but there is, however, another sign on that road warning of low flying aircraft. An issue almost NEVER mentioned here is the 2% downslope of this runway. If you’ve never experienced this kind of slope then you’re in for a scare. Threshold is at 49 ft, the end at 7 ft. Even in a a calm no-wind situation you’d be hard pressed to make the touchdown zone and this is the MAIN reason airplanes have a problem landing there. Such as myself in a heavily loaded Aztec on my first attempt into St. Barts. I had to go around, I wasn’t even close. The second time was better and I touched down late in the zone however the downslope was something I was not prepared for. The airplane kept going and the brakes were fading fast. I barely got it stopped before the beach. It’s not only the runway length, it’s the downslope that will get you.
Hmmm, not so quick. You can indeed land long and fast here, you’d be surprised. Very tricky downslope.
Three percent above stall? I’m not so sure my airspeed indicator is up to the task.
I always enjoy this video and article by Paul, and the lessons learned do deserve reminding from time to time. I wonder if the timing trigger for this was the Earnhardt jet overrun.
The dateline is a bit misleading though, as the article and video have existed for many years (unless Paul has made some minor updates/adjustments to the commentary justifying a date adjustment, that I’ve missed). I suggest that archive postings like this include an indication of the original post date along the lines … “first appeared in Avweb on xx.xx.xx”.
This is very common in the media these days, and makes it extremely difficult to sort out the “news” from the space-fillers retrieved from archives.
The dateline is a bit misleading though, as the article and video have existed for many years (unless Paul has made some minor updates/adjustments to the commentary justifying a date adjustment, that I’ve missed). I suggest that archive postings like this include an indication of the original post date along the lines … “first appeared in Avweb on xx.xx.xx”.
Agree wholeheartedly!
Bad planning. On final the pilot should land in the first 1/3 of the runway. If he goes through,GO AROUND.
Nah. Much ado… There’s natural EMAS at the end of the runway. It’s all good…
At low tide, that is…
I think this exceeds the number of and’s allowed in one sentence…
“The media has shown videos and images of the aircraft and the scrape marks on the runway and local planespotters got still photos of the plane with apparent scrape marks on both nacelles and the ram air turbine deployed just before it went down.”
Saw it with my own two eyes at our local airport.
Piper doing touch and goes at dusk, comes in and forgets to put the gear down. Scrapes the boarding step and the prop twangs on the concrete. Fella powers up and goes round.
I grab my handheld radio and tell him we’re calling 911…and ask if he’s OK…he says…”Ooookay, I’m fine. Beautiful night out”. Guy comes around the patch, puts the gear down, lands, no problem. We call 911 back and tell them the plane is safely on the ground.
Guy taxies back, we think he’s B-line to the hangar. We go about our business. Next thing we hear, is the piper in the run up area…HE TAKES OFF AGAIN.
Back on the handheld, “Mister, are you OK?” Once again, he says “Uhhh, everything’s OK, why?”…”we think you need to land, you’ve landed gear up!”…”naw, can’t be!”
Guy comes around the patch, gear down and lands uneventfully. We wave him down at the fuel pump. Sure ‘nuff, the underside of the boarding step is smoothly polished and the prop is rose petaled.
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The writer has this all wrong. This event was not a “go-around”. It was a clearly a “touch and go” landing.
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Every go-around is a do-over, until it isn’t.
Yes. How were they going to disown the initial ‘gear up’ in the first place? Claim gear collapse? No possible scenario; just let it stop on the runway and find another career.
This is an Aerostar pranging the props on the runway, and then taking off to land elsewhere. Brilliant.
https://jalopnik.com/watch-this-pilot-somehow-crash-and-fly-away-at-the-same-1698963802
Is doesn’t matter WHY your nose is pitching down against your wishes. DISABLE THE PITCH TRIM. You can worry about “understanding” the cause at some later time.
And BTW, reduce power from the takeoff setting.
And run the checklist, as asked, rather than saying a prayer (“resignation”).
Hopefully, info will reveal why - either no aural gear warning, or, no response to it.
Also don’t see an explanation as to why the excessive ldg airspeed in the first place. No where near ldg bug.
Click on the link in blue near the beginning of the article which has more detail.
Crash-and-dash
My thoughts exactly. I don’t remember anyone discussing the fact that there were no accidents with the 737MAX by any U.S. carrier that flew them.
Remember Icepilots NWT ? 2 Turkish pilots flying a CL-215 landed gear up, took off again and safely landed on second attempt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gTBe0FWQ18
There is an ATC recording where the pilots are cleared to land. In the background is an alarm going off. The video is on YouTube and called PIA 8303: Final Flight RT calls before crash.
A reviewer claimed that this was a ‘gear-up’ alarm. I don’t know if that is true, but there is a clear audible alarm while the pilot acknowledges the clearance. There was some confusion with the communication throughout the approach and final attempted landing, as well as the go-around. Very interesting listening…
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These 3rd world crews have very inadequate training. Runaway trim is a very simple memorized procedure on every 737 & every other jet built. But, who in their right mind would retract flaps with an active stick shaker thereby increasing stall speed by 40 kts? Since MCAS is only active with flaps up, it should not be a factor.
Not a “foreign pilot.”
A foreign “pilot.”
Family typically is connected back in the home nation. Graduated from a U.S.-based fair-weather pilot farm. Flies for a non-U.S. airline. Gets put in the right seat of a 737 or A320 with almost NO flight experience. You’ve probably met a few of them. Danger, Will Robinson.
More specifically, the claim is that the alarm is not gear-up per se, but a warning of the gear not being consistent with the selector position. So perhaps they convinced themselves that the gear was extended because the switch said so, but some other problem prevented extension. FDR should tell the story.