January 22
My first question;
Does this particular 172 actually need 100 octane fuel?
If not, the only recourse for the owners is to fold, providing mogas or whatever is available where they are based or within a short distance.
If the aircraft needs 100 octane fuel, and unleaded is not yet available at the base or nearby, that might be a defense.
The last point;
Stop the nonsensical posturing and delays; get unleaded fuel distributed everywhere.
If users Actually have problems using GAMI or whatever; those owners have a basis for action;
GAMI says their fuel works; it is extensively tested; approved for aircraft; people are using it successfully.
Get on with it!
(The Lawyer culture, and “Don’t tell me what to do” culture are holding back logical progress)
3 replies
January 22
Mr. Iceberg has shown a strong and very serious presence here on AVweb and has gone above and beyond the call of duty by submitting various strongly worded comments. Along with his latest excursions comes his sending equally strong-worded threats via Email.
I’ll be buying some popcorn for the times ahead, when Mr. Scott Francis Iceberg learns a few new tricks and his (potentially slightly flawed) interpretation of the law gets tested in court.
I do hope the affected defendants do get some support from the community.
1 reply
January 22
Where is the AOPA in defending the pilots? Just a small fraction of the AOPA President’s salary would provide a decent legal defense. Do they support this wild and unfounded lawsuit designed to bankrupt pilots?
January 22
This sounds a lot like the legal wranglings of “Jackass Hill” near Columbia Airport (O22). Residents constantly complain about aircraft “buzzing” their homes (which were built long after the airport so the airport didn’t just sneak up on them). A lot of weekend pilots fly there and aren’t expecting the density altitude in summer and do take a little longer gain altitude.
Or the woman near my home airport (LOCID redacted) who claimed that the airport beacon was causing her horses to stampede when it came on in the evening. Can two horses create a stampede? 
I hope both parties in this lawsuit get the help they need.
January 22
▶ brianhope
There have been multiple studies around airports that show lead levels no different than any other place in the country.
It doesn’t matter if the 172 needs 100LL. It is the only fuel available, in 99% of the USA.
If making the change to unleaded was easy, it would have been done decades ago. GAMI looks promising but still has a ways to prove itself.
2 replies
January 22
▶ raymo
If exposure to leaded fuels is truly such a health hazard hospitals and ultimately the morgues would have seen a major influx of FBO ramp fuelers who’ve had up-close & daily exposure over the years. Absent that I’m unconvinced.
January 22
Rachael Wallace with the law firm of Stokes Lawerence is the representing aviation attorney for FlyBoys LLC and she is excellent and very well connected to AOPA and many others.
January 22
▶ jjbaker
@brianhope Read the complaint. And the other complaints he’s filed in the area. They are informative. @jjbaker I’ll join you and bring extra popcorn. My guess from afar is his prior experience with the courts will not be helpful for what looks to be a frivolous action from this distance. And thanks for the other information. I join you in your hopes.
1 reply
January 22
▶ art
He has sent two emails to me directly and probably wrote a bunch of other commenters.
Problem with people who’s elevator fails to reach top floor is, that they probably present a safety and security risk for the airport, particular aircraft or people.
So either the guy wakes up from his state of intoxication, trying to delete his comments quickly - or Russ wakes up first and swings the ban-hammer.
2 replies
January 22
▶ brianhope
Are you a licensed active pilot ?
1 reply
January 22
▶ jjbaker
Wide awake and that account has been deactivated. Please flag any more of this nonsense you see if he sets up another account.
Russ
1 reply
January 22
This unleaded avgas program might be ok but I suspect that it is not needed. It has as much relevance to anything as the cries of the climate change adherents. This attack on the Cessna 172 pilots needs to be squashed into irrelevance.
January 22
▶ mambopooch
Fly them, fix them, instruct them
January 23
Mr. Icebergs beef is with the FAA, not with any aircraft owner.
The aircraft owner is using an FAA approved fuel. Period. Full stop.
Let the FAA fight this battle.
January 23
▶ jjbaker
Heck no. Let him post to his hearts desire.
Them present those post to the judge.
January 23
▶ rniles
Do not block that user. Allow him to post so his comments can be shown in court.
1 reply
January 23
▶ Robert_Ore
Nah. I think the lawyers have plenty and we don’t need this kind of spectacle in here. It’s amazing the twists and turns these stories take, though.
Russ
1 reply
January 23
One thing these lawsuits do is bring knowledge to the public that they are being overflown by aircraft that are polluting the air with lead. I’m sure a lot of them will be shocked to find out that that is true and the government is allowing it to happen.
1 reply
January 23
▶ raymo
Yes, there have been multiple tests showing very little lead coming from airports. There have also been multiple tests showing children with elevated Blood Lead Levels (BLLS) living near these airports. One of them will likely be proven to be false. Measuring devices for lead monitoring are now being questioned. Most recently, isotopes specific to leaded AvGas have been found in the well water of people living near these airports. Morey Field, where this taking place, may be forced to get unleaded fuel. The evidence keeps mounting.
January 23
▶ Ehsif727
One thing these lawsuits also do, is present the severe mental health crisis our country (and many other countries) has/ have ignored and not properly addressed in the last several decades.
It has somehow become socially acceptable to suffer from severe psychological disorders, produce nothing of value - but still arbitrarily select groups of people the enemy and sue them. This wastes time and resources.
His claims of suffering are likely the construct of these various mental and physical conditions. Could be a wrong medication, alcohol or drug abuse, or a variety of things. Maybe he is surrounded by a whole bunch of people - firing him on to keep fighting!
His writing style indicates several issues - not the last being suffering from a painfully well established sense of grandiosity. His writings and approach to logical debate, show some developmental issues.
Mr. Iceberg has threatened me with physical harm, free dental work and has invited me repeatedly into his sick little world of anquish and pain. I’ve been around verticals for some 20+ years and have had more than mmy share of insults, threats and silly users. He is somewhat special… 
I feel rather sad for Mr. Iceberg, because I really think he needs help. Pronto! He has lost his sense for reality and is likely in very bad condition.
Then again, I realize that Mr. Iceberg represents a clear danger to the defendants, their aircraft, the airport that aircraft is based at and I would likely reach out to law enforcement for a situation assessment and proper action.
Lead in fuels represent a topic our industry has failed to act upon for many decades. While lead free alternative providers are speculating on finding ways to “force” general aviation into the use of fuels not properly tested, the fact remains - we have no viable alternative fuel and we are not helping our cause by promoting prolonged further use of AVgas.
These nutjobs run around free and unsupervised and if the wrong synapse causes them to freak, we might see different outcomes in our future. A lawsuit and expensive attorneys can be handled. A bullet or knife in a throat… not so sure. Mr. Iceberg is one of several million…
From a tactical viewpoint, allowing him to post, likely helps defendants. Mr. Iceberg has a rocky path in court ahead - judges fully expect him to hold himself when selecting to represent himself. I sincerely doubt he will be capable to so - if his lawsuit ever reaches the bright lights of a courtroom.
January 23
▶ rniles
Russ, you are right with this one. The gentleman has long experience with the courts, all unsuccessful dating back to his days in Michigan. Lawyers will make short work of it with what he gave them. No sense giving them stuff to pad their bills.
January 28
That this discussion is taking place seems as absurd as it is surreal. I feel like I’m looking in from the outside, watching a baited experiment in social behavior conducted by aliens of superior intellect. 
Stronly reminiscent of an old Twilight Zone episode that is most entertaining.
1 reply
January 28
▶ William_Kelly
What would happen if the defendant, in cases like this and after winning, were to turn around and countersue the icebergs involved for damages, expenses, etc? How long would it take before many of these frivolous things go away?
Just my $2 worth. Inflation happened…
1 reply
January 28
▶ charral
Its unlikely that Scott Francis Iceberg has the funds to settle or pay for the outcome of a countersuit. While his conduct here has indicated severe issues and likely is the result of a complete detachment from reality (as normal people would perceive it) retaliatory litigation isn’t going to fix much.
These lawsuits will be the norm before too long.
